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  • Equipment used on the Harlem Division

  • Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.
Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #608760  by Frank
 
Besides RDCs, what rolling stock did NYC use on the Upper Harlem line from North White Plains to Chatham during the 1950s and 1960s?
 #608784  by Maybrook fan
 
As a young kid during the 60's and early 70's I mainly remember coaches and freight being pulled by Alco RS3's. Someone more in the know will have to tell you the type/make of the coaches.
 #608823  by Noel Weaver
 
RS-3's, RS-3's and more RS-3's, really for the most part this was it. Of course when a rare problem occurred and the fleet
was detoured on the Harlem then you would see E units for the most part on the through passenger trains. Other units were
also used for various periods, I remember some FM's that were repowered by EMD showing up there and I suspect that
GP-7's and maybe GP-9's may have also showed up as well.
RS-3's were the ideal locomotive for the Harlem after the end of steam. They could do a decent job on the passenger trains
of the time and also on the through and local freight trains as well.
I remember going to Put Junction once or twice while the roundhouse was still in operation and seeing it full of RS-3's and
the place was quite clean and well kept as were the locomotives too.
Noel Weaver
 #608836  by DutchRailnut
 
were out of the Metro North era , there is a seperate NYC forum.
 #608932  by Tom Curtin
 
Since your question was specifically "rolling stock" let me address passenger equipment. Until 1966 passenger trains were normally NYC 8-wheel heavyweight coaches. Many --- most, by the 60's --- had been rebuilt with sealed windows and new seat covers but were still ungodly uncomfortable and rough-riding. The Chatham trains had these but typically included in their consists two main line coaches -- the pre-war two tone gray ones without stainless steel sides. One of the Brewster commute runs had a heavyweight bar car that I would guess was a converted diner of some kind..

Around 1965 a number of off peak Brewster trains got RDC's assigned, either one or two. South of NWP they were towed by MU cars. Those consists most often came and went from track 39 in GCT and ran around the loop.

in 1966 two things happened: 1) the main line coaches converted to 108-seat commuter cars showed up. Three consists of these ran on Harlem commute runs. Many of the non-Budd stainless ones had their stainless sheathing removed in the conversion. The conversions included two 6BR-lounge cars converted to bar cars; 2) The daily Chatham trains --- one weekend round trip remained all-heavyweight and another weekend round trip had a mixed main line and heavyweight consist --- acquired all main line coaches.

Also, I remember at the beginning of PC in early 1968 one pair of NYC E-7 locomotives assigned to a Harlem commute run. it was the first time for years that anything but RS-3s had run there.
 #609122  by Allen Hazen
 
Really dumb, close to off topic, question. Harlem Division got RS-3 power. Now, New York Central also had a number of lower-powered early roadswitchers: Alco RS-1, Baldwin RS-10 (RS-12?), Lima 1200 hp. My impression was that most of these had steam generators and had been acquired with the idea that short-distance passenger work would be at le4ast par of their duty. Did they get to Harlem in the early years, or were they assigned to other divisions with commuter traffic (West Shore, Hudson, B&A out of Boston...)?
 #609154  by Otto Vondrak
 
The Putnam Division was dieselized with Lima switchers in 1951... I understand they didn't last long and were replaced with Alcos after a couple of years. The Limas were reassigned elsewhere.
 #609639  by Frank
 
Did NYC ever use E units in commuter service? I know the NYC used Alco RS3's on commuter trains particularly on the Putnam Branch.
 #609671  by Tom Curtin
 
Frank wrote:Did NYC ever use E units in commuter service?
See my comment above, which is: "Also, I remember at the beginning of PC in early 1968 one pair of NYC E-7 locomotives assigned to a Harlem commute run. it was the first time for years that anything but RS-3s had run there."

I am less familiar with what ran on the Hudson. I would bet it was likely some E units operated on the Hudson in commuter service although I don't know for sure.

RE the Put: the comment that the Lima RS's had a short "tenure" on the Put is correct ---- probably only a year or so, I understand. However, they weren't replaced with Alco's outright. Photos of the mid 50s show mostly Baldwin RS-12s.
 #610913  by Otto Vondrak
 
I think the biggest equipment I ever saw pictures of were the C-Liners. I don't think E or F units made regular appearances on the Harlem Division.
 #639252  by scoostraw
 
Tom Curtin wrote:Until 1966 passenger trains were normally NYC 8-wheel heavyweight coaches. Many --- most, by the 60's --- had been rebuilt with sealed windows and new seat covers but were still ungodly uncomfortable and rough-riding.
Tom do ANY of those ex-NYC heaveyweight coaches survive today? Do you have any photos of what the interiors of these coaches looked like?

-- Ken
 #639282  by Noel Weaver
 
The Central re-engined some C Liners and these ran on the Harlem at various times but their performance apparently left
something to be desired. There were other locomotives used on the Harlem over the years but the real succes story here
was the RS-3's.
I always liked the old heavyweight coaches that the Central used on both the Hudson and the Harlem for many years. I
agree that their ride wasn't the best but I think some of that might have been the track as well. They had doors at both
ends so they were faster to load and unload then the newer stuff that replaced them, the seats were fine for trips of 50 or
so miles. The 2600's that ran to Chatham were beautiful coaches for the Harlem and intended to make the people whose
trip was longer more comfortable while traveling. In years past, I ran trains with those HW coaches and they handled very
well with a good brake too. After the Penn Central merger we got some of those HW coaches on the New Haven as well.
E units were far more common on the Hudson out of Poughkeepsie than on the Harlem, they were probably well suited for
the heavy commuter trains out of Poughkeepsie that ran through to New York. The shuttles to Harmon were more likely
to have Budd Cars or GP's than RS-3's.
Noel Weaver
 #639357  by George123
 
Were the passenger cars used on the Harlem Div a standard manufacture back in the 1950's ? Where might I find pictures of those cars ? I recall the days of steam service through the Hawthorne area. There was a manual operated gate at Broadway and Commerce St before the overpasses were built in the early 1950's. The gatekeeper grew flowers next to the 'hut' he manned. Seems there were some steam engines still operating for a while about 1950.
 #639617  by Tom Curtin
 
scoostraw wrote: Tom do ANY of those ex-NYC heaveyweight coaches survive today? Do you have any photos of what the interiors of these coaches looked like?

-- Ken
I never photographed the insides of any. Also, I kind of doubt any are still around, unless preserved in some musrum collection