End of the line for the 261?

Trains magazine is reporting that negotiations between the Friends of the 261 and the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay have been unsuccessful. The Milwaukee Road 261 will return to the museum. The Friends may find another locomotive to restore. Hopefully they will get clear title to the next one.

Press Releases on the subject:

PRESS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
For Additional Information Contact: Bob Lettenberger
Phone: 920-437-7623, x-16
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 09-15


Milwaukee Road #261 to Return to Museum

Ashwaubenon (Green Bay, Wis.) – In an e-mail dated Tuesday, November 17, 2009, Steve Sandberg, COO of the Friends of the 261, informed the National Railroad Museum that his organization has decided to discontinue operating former Milwaukee Road steam locomotive #261, according to Michael E. Telzrow, executive director of the National Railroad Museum. Per the terms of the current agreement, The Friends of the 261 are now responsible for returning the locomotive to the Museum.

“The Museum wishes to see #261 continue its excursion operations,” stated Telzrow. “The locomotive is a living piece of America’s railroad heritage and offers a unique perspective on a bygone era. For these reasons, the Museum is exploring options which involve continued operation and eventual exhibit at the National Railroad Museum.”

The former Milwaukee Road locomotive is the first piece of railroad equipment acquired by the Museum, arriving at the facility on March 10, 1958. In railroad service, #261 had a brief career as a freight and passenger locomotive from 1944 to 1954. The Milwaukee Road assigned the locomotive to Chicago. From here it worked as far west as Kansas City and Omaha and north to Minneapolis-St. Paul. Having been built under World War II technology restrictions, #261 is a conglomeration of designs that existed at the time.

The Friends of the 261 have operated the locomotive for the past 18 years under a lease agreement with the National Railroad Museum. The 261 has appeared at rail events in the Midwest and eastern states. The locomotive has also led numerous excursions in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

Founded in 1956, the National Railroad Museum is one of the oldest institutions of its type in the U.S. The Museum works to foster an understanding of railroading and its significance to American life. Visiting the National Railroad Museum offers you an opportunity to explore our railroad heritage. Sit in the cab of the Union Pacific Big Boy, the world’s largest steam locomotive. View Gen. Eisenhower’s World War II command train. Examine the future of railroading in the sleek 1955 General Motors Aerotrain. The Museum is one of the oldest and largest institutions of its kind in the U.S.

FOR MEDIA USE — Photos of Milwaukee Road #261 are available at the Museum’s website – http://www.nationalrrmuseum.org/en-Us/n ... fault.aspx.

News Release
Contact: Steve Sandberg
Friends of the 261 to return Milwaukee Road 261 to National Railroad Museum

MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota, Nov. 20, 2009:

The “Friends of the 261” was unable to accept the final offer for an extension of its lease agreement for Milwaukee Road 261 from the National Railroad Museum of Green Bay, Wis. As a result, the famous steam locomotive, which was built in 1944 and used by the “Friends” in excursion service from 1993 to 2008, will eventually return to the Museum as a display.

The National Railroad Museum, which owns the 261, and the “Friends” have been attempting to negotiate a new lease for the past several years. The Friends asked for at least a 15-year lease agreement while the NRM’s final offer was for a ten-year term. Friends of the 261 and North Star Rail Chief Operating Officer Steve Sandberg said the decision to return 261 was based on simple economics. “The Museum’s latest offer would only extend us a ten-year lease, but under current Federal regulations boiler overhauls have a 15-year term. The cost for the 10-year lease was $20,000 per year with a four percent increase annually compounding. After incurring the cost of rebuilding the locomotive, the Friends would be paying in addition an average of $25,000 per year for the 10-year period. After ten years we would have to give the locomotive back with 33 percent of its service life still left. It’s hard to amortize the cost of a 15-year boiler overhaul in a ten-year time frame. We just could not economically justify spending $400,000 to $600,000 on an overhaul, plus paying a substantially increased lease payment, for only a ten-year lease term.”

For several years the “Friends” has been cross subsidizing the cost of 261 operations by leasing or chartering passenger cars from a fleet of cars it has built up over the years. This has enabled the not for profit Friends of 261 to keep the 261 in operation – the only privately sponsored mainline steam organization to do so, year after year.

Sandberg said it has been a privilege to restore and operate 261 over the past 15 years. “It has been one of the joys of my life to operate Milwaukee Road 261, especially since my grandfather used to run the locomotive on the Milwaukee Road when it was in regular service. I want to thank the National Railroad Museum for entrusting our organization with this historic engine for the last decade and a half.”

Even with the conclusion of 261 operations, the Friends of the 261 will remain active. The group will continue to charter and lease its extensive fleet of passenger cars for Amtrak and excursion trips. In 2010, the group is working to bring another main line steam locomotive to Minneapolis for several excursions, and, in the long run, may acquire another steam locomotive to restore to operation.

In most disputes, the truth lies somewhere the two sides. But in this case, Mr. Sandberg, with mathematical precision, makes a clear-cut case, for purely business reasons, to not continue negotiations with NRM.

There are plenty of other locomotives out there, and I wish his group the best in finding one, and under more favorable terms. What the NRM is NOT getting back is the Friend's coaches, experience in successfully operating over several larger railroads, volunteer corps, and goodwill.

Very good sumation, EDM5970. Now all that remains to be seen is just what other steam locomotive they may acquire for restoration.

C&O 614 perhaps?
Ya, wishful thinking on my part, I know.

Maybe Friends of the 261 could become "The Friends Of The 265"? The 265 is at the Illinois Railway Musuem parked inside looking for work.

I don't really understand the museum's position. As I understand it, The Friends of 261 have been paying for the maintenance of the locomotive all these years, while leasing it from the museum. This sounds like a great deal for the museum: it's great PR and museum revenue that they don't really have to do anything to receive. Why wouldn't they want to keep this arrangement going, at whatever terms the Friends of 261 can afford? Do they think someone else will pay them more? Who else has both the resources and the interest in this particular locomotive to take over the operation? If 261 comes back to Green Bay, it will cost the museum money to display and maintain, and considering that the museum has other locomotives that already make it worth visiting, I doubt that 261 will add much to the attendance revenue. This seems very short-sighted of the museum.

I think Milwaukee #265 would be an excellent choice for the Friends, and I would think that IRM would be willing to work with them.

Even if the IRM were willing to let the 265 out the gate to be restored to operation I doubt they would sign ownership over the Friends of the 261. And that’s the main issue; if you don’t own it you don’t have the final say. Unfortunately the 261 and 265 are the last large/modern Milwaukee Road steam locomotives extant. Pity an F-7 Baltic was not spared the scrapper. Then again, our British brethren have proven that extinction is not the end by building a new Pacific of a class gone since the 1960s. So instead of the “A1 Steam Locomotive Trust” how about the “F7 Steam Locomotive Trust”? Come on you upper-Midwesterners. Let’s see what you got!

Trains.com is reporting the 261 to have been sold to a "California-based collector." It's a little early for April fools so we shall see what happens.

Helps explain the nonsense this organization was expecting for the engine to be leased again by the Friends of the 261 group.

They probably had no intentions of leasing the locomotive and went into the negoitations planning to torpedo it with outlandish demands knowing that this sale was in the works and it would be a PR nightmare to just cut things off with the group that brought her back to life just to be able to sell and profit off her.

At least she's away from the National Railroad Museum and won't get caught up in another scrap drive 20 years down the road when they've let her decay untouched into oblivion. Let's hope the new owners work with the Friends group to do what's best for this wonderful machine.

I guess it was too good to be true; Trains.com is now reporting the sale of the 261 has fallen through. So she is again up for sale. Can anyone spare $225K?

UPDATE: Now Trains.com is reporting the 261 sale to be "still pending". In other news, the 'Friends of the 261' are now known as 'Railroading Heritage of Midwest America'.

Trains.com is reporting the 261 has been sold to the group f.k.a. the Friends of the 261. Hopefully this will stick and be the end of a long drawn out saga.

Donations can be sent to Railroading Heritage of Midwest America, friends affiliate, at 4322 Lakepoint Court, Shoreview, MN 55126 or by visiting http://www.261.com.

D.Carleton wrote:Trains.com is reporting the 261 has been sold to the group f.k.a. the Friends of the 261. Hopefully this will stick and be the end of a long drawn out saga.

Donations can be sent to Railroading Heritage of Midwest America, friends affiliate, at 4322 Lakepoint Court, Shoreview, MN 55126 or by visiting http://www.261.com.

Yup - I reported the same in the Milwaukee Road forum. It was quite the topic of discussion at the Midway Station Nat'l Train Day event.

When touring their ex-Milwaukee baggage car (now a gift shop/snack bar), some of their volunteers also mentioned they'd be working with another large steamer for the 2010 and possibly 2011 seasons. Apparently it was still a secret which loco, but they intimated that it originally ran somewhere between Chicago and New York.

Great memories of 261:

Some years ago, my late father heard from a friend that 261 would be running light west on the Southern Tier from Steamtown to go home. He lived near Waverly NY, and went down to see it go by. As he told me, his eyes were the only ones that weren't glued to a viewfinder on some kind of camera, and everyone there would have to go home to actually see 261.

A machinist's mate in the Navy, and a powerplant operator in his civilian work years, he loved steam. His eyes saw something great that he would remember to the day he died.