Empire Station Complex, aka New York Pennsylvania Station

NR - Thanks for posting the special one day Boonton Shuttle schedule - I have never seen NJT run service
like this between Denville and Boonton before connecting with trains to and from Dover...With the mileage
shown the "Scoot" run is 4 1/2 miles with only Mountain Lakes in between - a nice stone DL&W building...

The station at Denville is roughly in the shape of a "Y" with the two routes joining just W of the station...
Riding in the forward cars westbound on the M/D train should make your transfer easiest to the "Scoot".
Remember to pre-purchase your NJT tickets reading to BOONTON to avoid $5 on board penalty charge...

When was the last time that you went through NYP? There have been amenities added to both the LIRR
and Amtrak sections of NYP - not counting the Moynihan food court area...The ongoing NYP construction
is improving Penn Station in many aspects as a better place overall seeing the results...MACTRAXX

This is the first year the URHS is having rail service from NY to get to the event. Per their announcement...

"NEW this year: take the train to the festival! For one day only, NJ TRANSIT will activate special one-day shuttle service between Denville and Boonton, making it easier for people traveling from Penn Station New York and points in between, to attend our annual celebration of railroad history. The “Boonton Scoot” special shuttle trains will meet certain regularly scheduled NJ TRANSIT trains to and from New York City at the Denville Station transfer point. Riders may purchase regular tickets to Boonton Station through the NJ TRANSIT app and ticket vending machines. However, real-time arrival and departure information will not be available for the shuttle since it is a special service."

https://www.urhs.org/museumforaday

I was a good boy and downloaded the NJT app last night, same song and dance I'm used to with Metro-North lol


I had to check my saved e-mails, the last time we were in NYP was after a show at the Hulu Theater in November 2021. So, yeah, it's been a few years lol.

To answer your question: tracks 1-4 are not accessible from Moynihan. NJT trains are not shown or announced at Moynihan. But nothing will stop you from keeping an eye on departure vision on your phone (available in-app or directly through a browser at dv.njtransit.com) and then boarding at a track that’s accessible from Moynihan if that’s where your train gets called.

I rarely take NJT so can’t speak to the odds of getting lucky (NJT trains depart from tracks 1-12, rarely 13-14). Of course, even if you’re “unlucky”, you can get to NJT concourse pretty easily in a few minutes, though you might not get your pick of seats this way.

Me personally, I board my Amtrak trains from the NJT concourse as it’s closer to my office and lets me skip the Amtrak crowds.

(Dumb?) question: are the escalators running for NJT in Moynihan, or for Amtrak in Penn? Just curious as to what the access is like.

Thanks Paul; I'm thinking we may just go up to NYP and wait, it won't be too long of a layover, and it sounds like some of the food options opened back up again since we were there last.

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:44 am Last time we were in NYP the Shake Shack was gone, McDonalds was gone, the Pizza Hut/Nathan's/Tim Hortons was gone, etc. etc.; it was pretty depressing lol.

I never did find the McDonald's that was in there when I was up there last decade. Did hit the Timmies through, and thus my opinion of their coffee.

I wasn't a huge fan of their coffee, but their baked goods were pretty decent. They had a honey dipped cruller that was really good, and it seemed like their donuts in general were a little fresher/more moist than Dunkies (but obviously not as good as Krispy Kreme around the corner).

The McDonalds, IIRC, was downstairs near the Shake Shack and the pharmacy in the LIRR waiting area.

I will say, the food options at Moynihan since they actually opened the food court are pretty good. Hell, just the food up in the lounge is decent (when it's not picked over). A lot of times we'll just use a lounge pass at Moynihan and grab a bite upstairs and people watch from the balcony.

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:34 am I wasn't a huge fan of their coffee, but their baked goods were pretty decent. They had a honey dipped cruller that was really good, and it seemed like their donuts in general were a little fresher/more moist than Dunkies (but obviously not as good as Krispy Kreme around the corner).

The McDonalds, IIRC, was downstairs near the Shake Shack and the pharmacy in the LIRR waiting area.

I will say, the food options at Moynihan since they actually opened the food court are pretty good. Hell, just the food up in the lounge is decent (when it's not picked over). A lot of times we'll just use a lounge pass at Moynihan and grab a bite upstairs and people watch from the balcony.

Yeah, the coffee was no big whoop, but decent food at Timmies at the time. That said, I missed actually exploring Moynihan when I was up there with another friend on the way to Chicago via NYC. We joked that it was technically his first time in NYC, and "technically correct is the best kind of correct".

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 7:55 am (Dumb?) question: are the escalators running for NJT in Moynihan, or for Amtrak in Penn? Just curious as to what the access is like.

Luck of the draw, but the stairs and elevators always work.

But no, no one bothers to synchronize them. And the monitors showing which train is at the station only work for the operating carrier in the relevant concourse: NJT never shows Amtrak trains and Moynihan never shows NJT trains. Which is ridiculous because NJT figured out how to do it at Trenton, Newark, etc, and LIRR somehow figured it out for NJT for tracks 13/14.

Most regionals and Acelas south to DC show on DepartureVision.

I'm talking about physical displays in the station. There is not a single monitor in all of Penn/Moynihan that shows all trains on one board. Not one.

Even the split-flap displays didn't show all of the trains... but who would want to see a train 8 hours away when they're trying to board the next train out of Dodge... er... New York?

That and the three systems have separate loading areas dating back to before Moynihan. If you're taking LIRR, you're ticketing in Moynihan but you're waiting under Madison until your train's called to board. LIRR boards under Madison. NJ Transit boards under Madison. Amtrak boards at Moynihan. Otherwise, you got a crowded mess...

...well, it was a big crowded mess back then. Now, it's a bit less.

News on Penn Station Study: https://www.newsday.com/long-island/tra ... n-xakqidd2

Study: Penn Station needs to expand footprint to accommodate Gateway Project


With a $16 billion effort underway to dig a new tunnel and double the number of trains coming across the Hudson River into Manhattan, Penn Station faces a problem: How to accommodate them all.

Doing so will require expanding Penn Station into adjacent properties, according to a new study released Thursday that ruled out other options, including digging deep beneath the existing facility.
...
The four options included two that would build new tracks below the existing facility, including by potentially mining caverns deep below the 114-year-old station. Two other options looked at using so-called "through-running" to expand Penn's ability to handle train traffic. Under that strategy, Penn would become less of a train terminal and more of a stop along the way, with Amtrak and NJ Transit trains continuing eastbound, potentially to Long Island, and westbound trains — including LIRR ones — continuing to New Jersey.

The study ultimately concluded that all of those options had fatal flaws, either because of their inability to meet safety requirements, to deliver the desired doubling of trains crossing the Hudson River from 24 an hour to 48, how difficult they would be to build, or the impact on Penn's existing service.
...

Amtrak Media: https://media.amtrak.com/2024/10/amtrak ... n-station/

Amtrak, MTA, and NJ TRANSIT Release Feasibility Study as Next Major Step to Increase Capacity at New York Penn Station


Assesses the technical practicality of four design concepts

NEW YORK – Amtrak, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), and NJ TRANSIT released today the engineering feasibility study, “Doubling Trans-Hudson Train Capacity at New York Penn Station” (NYP), that analyzes the potential of four concepts to double train capacity at the station during the peak period, as well as expand Amtrak Empire Service, without expanding the current station’s footprint. The study concludes none of the concepts achieve this capacity goal, a significant milestone that determines the focus going forward will be on options that expand the station physical footprint.

“This study demonstrates that to meet the needs of the region, we must expand the station beyond its existing footprint to deliver the passenger capacity promised by the Gateway Program,” said Amtrak CEO Stephen Gardner. “The feasibility study is part of a long-term collaboration between Amtrak, MTA, and NJ TRANSIT to seek ways to transform the busiest train station in the Western Hemisphere into a modern, world-class facility with the capacity to provide 200,000 more passenger trips.”

“This is an important step for the future of Penn Station,” said MTA Construction & Development President Jamie Torres-Springer. “This detailed analysis lays the groundwork to how the region can work together to meet long-term capacity needs while also clearing the way for immediate improvements for the 600,000 daily customers in existing Penn Station.”

“The findings of this study highlight the critical need for a comprehensive approach to increase capacity at New York Penn Station,” said NJ TRANSIT President & CEO Kevin S. Corbett. “NJ TRANSIT is committed to the goal of delivering a Penn Station that transforms the customer experience and maximizes the benefits of the Gateway Program.”

The station and its operational infrastructure, including the North and East River Tunnels, currently function at maximum capacity. The Gateway Program is a series of infrastructure improvements built around increasing train capacity within the 10 miles between Newark Penn Station and NYP. Significant additional train capacity at NYP is needed to accommodate existing and anticipated passenger demand, improve reliability, and support future cross-regional rail service.

As it’s within the most congested segment of the Northeast Corridor (NEC), one of Gateway’s key objectives is to double passenger train service between New York and New Jersey from 24 to 48 trains per hour, or more, during peak hours. This approach is also consistent with the long-term vision for expanded intercity and regional passenger rail service on the NEC established by the Federal Railroad Administration’s NEC FUTURE Program.

The study focuses on two alternatives with two design concepts each to evaluate their potential to at least double the station’s existing rail capacity between New York and New Jersey in the peak direction during rush hours. The ‘Under Penn Station’ concepts evaluated in the study involve adding ten station tracks directly below the existing facility. The ‘Through-Running’ alternatives include a “Full Reconstruction” option that requires complete demolition of existing tracks and platforms and reconstruction of fewer tracks with wider platforms, and a “Limited Track and Platform Reconfiguration” option, which also envisions wider platforms and fewer tracks, but would require only partial demolition and reconstruction of existing tracks and platforms.

The study concludes that all concepts evaluated suffer from constructability, operational, safety, and/or connectivity challenges and flaws that render them infeasible for further evaluation. During the design and the environmental evaluation phases, the Railroad Partners will continue to develop options for expanding the station’s capacity that have the potential to meet the Gateway goal of doubling cross-Hudson train capacity.

Amtrak, MTA, and NJ TRANSIT are committed to a robust public engagement process in support of the two Penn Station projects (Reconstruction, which will improve the existing facility, and Capacity Expansion, which will increase rail capacity), including convening a Station Working Advisory Group (SWAG) of more than 50 regional stakeholders who will meet regularly to discuss and provide input on the Railroad Partners’ vision for the station complex. The SWAG is co-chaired by Regional Plan Association President & CEO Tom Wright and NYU Rudin Center for Transportation Director & Assistant Clinical Professor of Public Service Sarah Kaufman.

The Railroad Partners commissioned the WSP USA/FXC JV team to develop the feasibility study. More information, including access to the study, details about the Reconstruction and Capacity Expansion projects, and the complete list of SWAG participants, is available on the Penn Projects website. The website also features a section for members of the public to provide relevant feedback about both Penn projects.

https://www.nj.com/news/2024/10/these-p ... utType=amp

These Penn Station expansion plans should be rejected, study says

...
“We reiterate that we need a bona fide independent review to assess the capacity needs at Penn Station and the capacity increases that can be brought forward by any number of through running plans including those of ReThinkNYC,” said Samuel Turvey, ReThinkNYC chairman. “We say this for many reasons including that the Railroads and their consultants have not been able to “stick the landing” on capacity calculations.”

He cited the railroads changing train capacity findings that “through running” could produce between March 2021 and August from the railroads, including one that 46 trains per hour could be delivered. Turvey also used the proposed new Port Authority bus terminal as an example of a plan that delivers increased capacity on the terminal site, sparing the neighborhood from property condemnation.

“None of this gives us any confidence that these reports are being handled in a fair and disinterested fashion,” he said.
...