Does anybody recognize this locomotive? (Shay)

Knowing that I liked railroad history, my grandmother gave me an old photograph that belonged to her father of a few people standing on an old locomotive. That's about all I know, other than that I am in some way related to the people in the photograph. Her father was named Groves (the family name was later changed to add an s for some reason or another), so it must have been his generation or earlier, so I'm guessing this is late 19th or very early 20th century. There don't appear to be any markings on the locomotive, and no landmarks to suggest where on earth it may have been taken, but I was wondering if any of you steam buffs might clue me in as to what locomotive it is, hoping that might narrow things down, or at least answer that aspect of my curiosity. Here are two photos I took of it in different lighting:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8933/1000296gn2.jpg
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9148/1000303oi9.jpg

There is a hand written note on the back, though it will no doubt be useless in identifying the locomotive, I'll post it here: "The man standing in front of the train is Phillip Duckworth. He was left on the doorstep of Miss Fanny Duckworth as an infant. Fanny later married James Simian Grove and they raised Phillip. The couple at the front of the train are Fanny and James Grove.

Thanks in advance if anyone has any idea on this!

- Luke

Well, it's a Class B, 3 Cylinder, 2 truck Shay, most likely built by Lima, and appears to be narrow gauge. Since it appears to have a kerosene headlight, may be as old as 1880s. Willamette Loco of Portland OR, built Shay 'clones'.

Most shays were used in logging country, Pac Northwest and N. Calif., some in Wisconsin, Michigan and, I believe, some in Maine. They were also used in logging country in the South, and in foreign countries.

If you could narrow down where your relatives were from, might be able to better locate what railroad or logging company, as there were hundreds.

I agree that it's definitely logging. That kind of a makeshift bridge is typical of logging lines. I'm not so sure that it's narrow gauge however. Lukerice - has your family lived in the PA general area from this time ? If so, it's probably reasonably close to where you are now - West Virginia, PA, etc. Too bad we can't get a maunfacturers number. We could hone right in on where, when, etc. Great family heirloom. Hold on to it.

3rdrail wrote:I agree that it's definitely logging. That kind of a makeshift bridge is typical of logging lines. I'm not so sure that it's narrow gauge however. Lukerice - has your family lived in the PA general area from this time ? If so, it's probably reasonably close to where you are now - West Virginia, PA, etc. Too bad we can't get a maunfacturers number. We could hone right in on where, when, etc. Great family heirloom. Hold on to it.

Oh absolutely, I will treasure this and pass it down to my grandchildren some day. Looking at the picture, it could very well be around Western Pennsylvania, but it could just as well be almost anywhere else in the country too. Not much to go by as far as the background scenery. I'm going to try to get more information from my grandmother when I see her, but I know her father was a Pennsylvania coal miner, and I'm not sure if the man in the picture is of his generation (brother, cousin, etc) or a generation before, so I'm not entirely sure what general area of the country that was taken in. I'm guessing it was in this area, but I am in no way positive of that.

In any case, thanks a lot for the info, I don't know much about steam engines, but I figured someone on the forums here surely would! When it comes to trying to make sense of a mysterious photograph, any help I can get is precious!

The locomotive looks new (it even looks like it hasn't had lettering and numbers applied yet), and I'm guessing that this is a non-working day special occasion - possibly the owners posing with their new workhorse on a Sunday afternoon. You are very fortunate to have a grandma to speak with. Make the most of it with this, and every other link with your family's past. Grandma's are a treasure trove of family history that once gone, can't be found. Keep us advised as to what you find as we are interested as well. Good luck !

lukerice,

I found a shay was built for a Groves Creek Lumber Co, in Ira (Groves) WVA
http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=WV

You can also send in a copy of your photo, and info you have to:

[email protected] and they may be able to really pin this down for you.

Good Luck!!

CarterB wrote:lukerice,

I found a shay was built for a Groves Creek Lumber Co, in Ira (Groves) WVA
http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=WV

You can also send in a copy of your photo, and info you have to:

[email protected] and they may be able to really pin this down for you.

Good Luck!!

Well now that is very interesting! Of course it could just be a coincidence of names, but if they are having their picture taken with the locomotive, I suppose as good an explaination as any would be that they had just bought it for their little lumber hauling line, especially if that is narrow gauge.

That might also account for there being no road name or markings on the locomotive. Was it common practice for small roads like that not to bother marking up their locomotives? Or perhaps it was just bought and they hadn't gotten to it yet. In any case, I'm going to have to ask my grandmother if she remembers anything about a lumber company in the family!

lukerice,

Let us know what you find out!!

lukerice wrote: Was it common practice for small roads like that not to bother marking up their locomotives?

Who knows ? For all that we know presently, it may indicate that this was their first and only locomotive at this time. That would explain the ceremony. You may very well have a very historic family photo there !

* 6 months later, a voice from the peanut gallery*

It is definitely a B-class Lima Shay, about 30-32 tons or so. I would say it was standard gauge, look at the outward slant of the cylinders, so the crankshaft and lineshafts line up. Narrow gauge Shays' cylinders are vertical.

Just a thought.. looking at the ties going over the bridge... those look pretty good for that time frame. They almost look like modern ties, not what one would expect from a logging company.

Just some more info.

All "Shay" locomotives were made at Lima.

The slanting cylinders tell us nothing of the gauge of the track.

The 5 operating at Cass are all standard gauge and all have vertical cylinders with no slant.

However, the smaller (30tonners and such) slanted their cylinders for the reasons outlined above.

The widest gauge Shay was a 7 footer (!).

i removed and reposted

Unless I'm blind, I don't see any pistons, piston rods or main rods on this 'thing'???

im sorry the images dont seem to enlarge when you klik on them it says jacob forster in the big letters