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  • Discharged from one Railroad

  • General discussion about working in the railroad industry. Industry employers are welcome to post openings here.
General discussion about working in the railroad industry. Industry employers are welcome to post openings here.

Moderator: thebigc

 #1363696  by AmericanDream
 
I am writing this leaving out names of all employers involved.

I was recently in a conductor program for an MTA railroad and passed every requirement during training. I Received the highest grades on exams and was helped out many of my fellow classmates. Almost a year later, I was let go due to a technical and questionable reason not related to any rules or violations being broken. A simple technicality and somewhat freakish reason for lack of better words. My direct training officer attempted to help but was futile. I attempted appeal, through FRA, who ruled in my favor but in doing so I believe I angered some higher ups. Due to no labor representation I was unable to have their decision overuled.

A few months later I applied and tested for another position with the same railroad. I passed the exam with one of the highest scores, and I passed the ensuing background. Other candidates have been called before me and I was later told that I may not receive a call due to the position requiring certain qualifications. Although the posting doesnt mention anything of that sort


Fast forward to a month ago I was called for an A/C test for another railroad under MTA and passed. During the test we were told that there was another test the following week for other candidates and once those results were tallied only then would they start contacting candidates. I received a letter of denial dated prior to that second exam stating that they would move forward with more qualified candidates.

The responsibilities for this AC position is identical to some of the duties I was doing for a year as a Conductor Trainee in the other railroad. I am confused as to who could possibly be more qualified than someone like me.

I followed every rule, was never late or called out, or never stole any money. I was just a victim of a ridiculous technicality. My natural reaction to appeal and debate my discharge should not be used against me in determining employment with someone else.

My questions are, Although you clearly possess all qualifications and experience and knowledge needed for a position, pass background checks can you still be told that you are not qualified. It seems I am being denied employment for one department due to my history with another department and denied employment by the other company because of the same thing? Could I do anything about this?
 #1363766  by Jim1348
 
.....Almost a year later, I was let go due to a technical and questionable reason not related to any rules or violations being broken. A simple technicality and somewhat freakish reason for lack of better words.....
What exactly did they let you go for?
 #1363769  by AmericanDream
 
I failed a recertification exam by 1 point. (My first failure ever out of 100+exams) Which had a question which was worded poorly which I explained to the proctor as to why I answered said question incorrectly. I was told dont worry and that i should be ok. Well i was terminated 2 weeks later without any review and since i was on probation it was David vs Goliath. Had it been properly written I would've still been employed. My training officer pleaded with his superior that a mistake was made but To no avail
 #1363804  by 8th Notch
 
Sticky situation, I'm not familiar with all of the labor contracts but I'm wondering how you were on probation a year later when most contracts are only 90 days? Also was this your first failure? I know Amtrak and most railroads offer multiple retakes before they give you the boot as far as recert goes... Once you get let go from one railroad it's pretty hard to get on with another, sounds like you are getting the standard rejection letter despite having revelant experience. All I can say is keep trying and hopefully once you get an interview, be up front and honest about your situation. Lastly if you can get any letter or documentation from someone at your old employer that supports you, I would strongly suggest.
 #1363809  by matawanaberdeen
 
8th Notch wrote:Sticky situation, I'm not familiar with all of the labor contracts but I'm wondering how you were on probation a year later when most contracts are only 90 days? Also was this your first failure? I know Amtrak and most railroads offer multiple retakes before they give you the boot as far as recert goes... Once you get let go from one railroad it's pretty hard to get on with another, sounds like you are getting the standard rejection letter despite having revelant experience. All I can say is keep trying and hopefully once you get an interview, be up front and honest about your situation. Lastly if you can get any letter or documentation from someone at your old employer that supports you, I would strongly suggest.
How about if he went to a Class II or a short line, would they take him? Then in a few years maybe he could move to a Class I or Amtrak or passenger RR?
 #1363888  by Steamboat Willie
 
You omitted your employer but I will shed some light in the practices with MNR.

When you hire into Transportation, you are required to sign a contact with the railroad, which draws out the rules of the land as a trainee. The testing requirements are also spelled out for both written and performance . Less chances are afforded once you get further into the program and if you establish certain patterns, it will promote a review of your file and possibly termination.

I am told the program lasts upwards of a year now and once you go through training, the Conductor Compliance department administers a, "road test," and if the student is successful they are issued their license. The Training Department does not issue out licenses. Securing a license upon completion of the Training program is mandatory.

In addition, whenever someones fails a test or does not meet the requirements of the contract, a letter of reprimand is issued. If you failed a test, it will clearly state how many attempts you have left along with the repercussions.

Probation includes the entire time you're a trainee and continues sixty days after you mark up for service. New hires pay an initiation fee while they are in class, which is spread out over the course of several months and extremely limited representation is afforded.

I'm also a tough sell that the FRA would have any say in this. The Training Program was upheaved a few years ago in light of Conductor Certification and fulfilled the FRA's requirements under CFR Part 242. Mind you, every railroad is going to be different with their requirements. While you may not agree with the program, you also signed the contract with the railroad when you became a trainee.

Also, why did your employer choose to terminate you two weeks later? It's usually a swift course of action with that with MNR.

I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
 #1364257  by truck6018
 
Don't get ahead of yourself, just because you went through the program with one, doesn't mean you are qualified to hold the position with the other. Each has their own rule book, physical characteristics, etc....

While you don't mention carriers, it's not hard to figure out since there are only two railroads in MTA land, and one starts you off in conductor training where the other starts you as A/C. With that said.....

I've heard of your situation happening in recent years and while I don't agree with it, unfortunately there is little you can do just short of lawyering up as trainees have zero union representation until marked up. Appealed your case to the FRA was academic as a carrier can be stricter than the minimum requirement set forth by the FRA. My suspicions are you got caught up in the fallout of a recent testing scandal where the MTA Inspector General's Office got involved and basically changed the way tests are being given. Once the IG gets their hands into the mix with anything, it's outside any one else's control. Heck, I know some who have 20 plus years in the company and because the influence of the IG put them out of service facing potential criminal charges.

Back to your "qualifications" getting hired with the other carrier. The fact of the matter is you were fired from the first, justifiably or not.. That will play into your past work history moving forward. Being you are looking into the same MTA family, the end result with the new endeavor will not be favorable and I'm not be the least bit surprised that you got passed over. If I were in your shoes, I would expect to be passed over too.
 #1365562  by BlendedBreak
 
AmericanDream wrote:I failed a recertification exam by 1 point. (My first failure ever out of 100+exams) Which had a question which was worded poorly which I explained to the proctor as to why I answered said question incorrectly. I was told dont worry and that i should be ok. Well i was terminated 2 weeks later without any review and since i was on probation it was David vs Goliath. Had it been properly written I would've still been employed. My training officer pleaded with his superior that a mistake was made but To no avail
The exam only had one question?
Seems like there may have been a few questions that gave you a tough time.
 #1365687  by csxhobo
 
I have a feeling that the whole story is not being told. First the railroad that you worked for has a collective bargaining agreement. With that said your local chairman should have helped you if you are paying union dues. The one that you applied for has one also. I don't know the terms of the agreement. On the freight side the rules test that we do every year are open book and each person gets 6 tries and your trainmaster can rest the test to give you 6 more. You also stated that you was the smartest person in your training class. In less than a year you should not forget all of the information. Being as you had the highest score in your class.
 #1365696  by DutchRailnut
 
In training the student is technically not employee untill he/she marks up, and only gets treated to rules and benefits of Collective bargaining as courtesy.
They pay no union dues, but they pay initiation on monthly basis so they do not get hit by big bill as soon as they mark up.
as for exams they have a cutoff score, if you don't make the score you fail, no flexibility in that after cheating scandal from few years back.
 #1365759  by COEN77
 
It seems you got caught up in what was an old cheating scandal that has led to greater scrutiny. I've seen that happen before. I know on the class I freight railroad I worked trainmasters had a lot of lead way with recertification tests. Like CSXHobo mentioned one could fail X amount of times and be given more chances. I know with trainees they also had a lot of lead way. I watched them let some people go while keeping others. It didn't make sense.
 #1367260  by Steamboat Willie
 
DRN is correct. Post 2014 scandal a lot has changed. Quite a bit of information was omitted in the original poster's story. The said test was not "do or die" on the first attempt and for his probation as a conductor to be terminated, he would have had to exhaust the maximum amount of attempts of achieving a passing grade. Training at MN goes through the Training Department and not Transportation.