• Delaware and Raritan River Railroad-General Discussion

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by R&DB
 
Besides Stavola's Tinton Falls plant they have another plant on Yellowbrook Road on the FIT. Also directly across the street is L&L Paving company asphalt plant. Three posslble sand customers.
EDIT: Don't forget asphalt has three basic components, sand, stone and bitumen (tar). All must be delivered to the plant to make the paving matterial.
  by Bracdude181
 
That reminds me.

Word of the land disputes has popped up again.

This time I’m hearing L&L is complaining. They appear to be saying their property border is right up against the tracks, and are refusing to cooperate because they moved in and/or purchased the land before any official action/announcement was made that there was an intention to open the line.

Any insight on this would be appreciated.
  by CharlieL
 
There was mention in the STB filing of a section of track between Freehold and Farmingdale which they planned on rerfurbing and running on that was not owned by Conrail or NJT. It could be there.

I doubt it would be a stopper though; the line was never abandoned. I'll look to see if Howell tax maps are online.
  by CharlieL
 
OK, Howell tax sheet 8.16 shows that section of track owned by NJT. L&L may sue whoever sold them the land but they don't appear to have a prayer of stopping the RR.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
CJPat wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:50 am One thing that confuses me when I read comments about NJT not wanting certain type cars on the Coast line is that if the the FIT-Southern connection gets replaced/repaired, that only means cars will go to Browns yard rather than Red Bank for interchange. Any cars in Browns yard are not going in/out thru Monthmouth Junction onto the Northeast Corridor. They are still going back out to the Coastline to get over the Raritan even if they head up the Chemical Coast.

On NJT coastline is still on the NJT Coastline. Kind of hard to say policy prohibits scrap gondolas, or anthing else, on the NJT Coastline if they are still using NJT rails across the Raritan from Parlin.

What am I missing?
I believe NJT south of South Amboy is pretty unfriendly to freight. Not sure why, but as @Bracdude101 said there are a few bridges on the Coastline that cannot handle anything above 263,000-pound cars. The desired weight for most railroad-utilizing businesses is 286,000 pounds. The Raritan River bridge, I believe, can handle 286K cars, and it is being replaced with a bridge that could handle heavier and won't have a height restriction to it.

In addition, the Coastline has tons of issues with scheduling and whatnot as is, I can see why NJT would want to limit the trackage they have to share with freight companies to a very limited amount. Having the freight trains only have to traverse over 2 or so miles of track instead of however long South Amboy-Red Bank would be pretty good for all parties involved.
Bracdude181 wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:07 am Scrap gondolas frequently travel the 1.8 miles from WOOD to ESSAY on the Coast Line, yet aren’t allowed past South Amboy. Apparently it’s something to do with the bridges not being able to take the weight? That’s what I’m told.
Yes, according to this document on page 2 (https://www.njtpa.org/NJTPA/media/Docum ... f?ext=.pdf), there are three bridges on the Coastline south of South Amboy that have a weight restriction
Bracdude181 wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:07 am I have, however, also heard Brick Recycling may have gotten in trouble for loading their cars over the 263,000 limit imposed by NJT, hence them not being allowed to get cars anymore.
Ah, that would make sense. Hopefully after FIT-SOUS is reconnected they get a nice amount of cars.
R&DB wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:03 am Besides Stavola's Tinton Falls plant they have another plant on Yellowbrook Road on the FIT. Also directly across the street is L&L Paving company asphalt plant. Three posslble sand customers.
EDIT: Don't forget asphalt has three basic components, sand, stone and bitumen (tar). All must be delivered to the plant to make the paving matterial.
Ah, good points. Not to mention maybe they could ship asphalt/concrete/whatever finished products they make by rail too, if that's possible. Not sure why Stavola in Tinton Falls never got rail service, since the tracks literally go through their property, probably because CR wouldn't service them enough to justify it.
CharlieL wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:05 pm OK, Howell tax sheet 8.16 shows that section of track owned by NJT. L&L may sue whoever sold them the land but they don't appear to have a prayer of stopping the RR.
L&L should try to make lemonade with the lemons they were given, and get rail service. Maybe they can sue the seller for the cash to build the siding, lol

They won't be able to stop the railroad, but they could be able to throw a big, expensive tantrum that can delay the repairs. Not sure what the point of that is if they won't be able to stop it period.
  by R&DB
 
FIT Freehold to Farmingdale was never abondoned. The proper term was Out Of Service. Owned by NJ DoT through NJT, thy can re-open it whenever they want, even through sub-contractors.
Last edited by R&DB on Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by R&DB
 
L&L should put in a siding and take deliveries. They would benefit. Their business competitor is Stavola.
Fewer trucks and fewer drivers.
  by pdtrains
 
So L&L is a paving company that claims that they own property adjacent to the tracks, and refurb of the RR cannot proceed without their permission? I dont get it.
  by Bracdude181
 
pdtrains wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:18 pm So L&L is a paving company that claims that they own property adjacent to the tracks, and refurb of the RR cannot proceed without their permission? I dont get it.
Nor do I.
  by Redfish
 
Been a lurker here for years. I'll throw my 2 cents in.

Stavola in Tinton Falls did get rail service at one time. Conrail had the Conveyor train that ran from that quarry on the Raritan Line in Bound Brook to Tinton Falls from the mid 80's to the very early 90's.
One potential source of traffic could be garbage. However, the hurdles to make it happen may be insurmountable.
I know a guy, who knows a guy, who is involved in Monmouth County politics. He has stated that the Monmouth County landfill is pretty much full. At least some county waste is being trucked to Bridgewater Resources near Manville, to the tune of 80'ish trucks per day. The BRI facility is served by NS, 62V/63V, but the yard that NS sets off and picks up at is tiny. Like 2800' give or take, tiny. A facility in Monmouth and/or Ocean County would be beneficial, but the stink from those garbage train cars could gag a maggot and the stink from the residents and politicians along the FIT/SOUS would probably be worse.
  by R&DB
 
To my recolections L&L fought with Howell Twp. to be allowed to put their asphalt plant at that location as the only alternative for consumers to Stavola in Monmouth County. I have no feeelings for either of these companies but I am a major supprter of business competition. I believe L&L could benefit from a siding on the FIT.
  by pdtrains
 
So, I still dont get it. If they were allowed to build right up to the RR ROW, whats the problem? Did the township (or whatever governing body) give them permission to encroach on the ROW, with the blessings of NJT?
Guess I'll have to look at the goog maps to see...
  by Bracdude181
 
I could be wrong but I think L&Ls property boundary was been right up against the track for some time, perhaps even before they moved in.

Measuring tool on Google Earth puts L&Ls temporary fence at 17.8 or so feet from track centerline at the closest point where this measurement can be made. It’s like 5 feet closer at the road but I can’t say exactly how much cause the tracks aren’t visible.

Could be wrong but I think RR property is considered 25 feet from the centerline under federal law? May explain the issue…
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