Delaware and Raritan River Railroad-General Discussion

There was a double ended siding on the Amboy SEC on the north side of the main from one wye leg to the other, about 2500 feet. In the future trackage rights might be needed, or tracks inside the Wye for larger interchange.

CR7876 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 5:17 pm There will be two interchanges until the line is made complete. Red Bank and Jamesburg. DRRR does not have rights onto the NJCL or Amboy Sec.

Thanks CR. I think I knew NJCL was a no no, but I didn’t know about the Amboy Sec.

CR7876 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 2:28 pm Honestly, I think CR just thru it in because there was no reason not to. NJT doesn't own the TRIT, CR does.

Or perhaps there is some land available adjacent to the TRIT for a transload site..... just Speculating.....

Does anyone know where a transloading site could possibly be established??? The TRIT goes through some pretty dense residential areas and the outskirts of the Pine Barrens, they might have some issues trying to build a sizeable transloading operation.

CR7876 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 6:30 pm There was a double ended siding on the Amboy SEC on the north side of the main from one wye leg to the other, about 2500 feet. In the future trackage rights might be needed, or tracks inside the Wye for larger interchange.

The big rumor that has been spread around with this grant was that DRRR/C&D/whatever they call themselves would take over all operations out of Browns after FIT-SOUS is connected

So, where will they keep their motive power? I can't see Jamesburg and can't see Red Bank.

Good grief, in Jamesburg if someone flushes the gas station john, a resident will complain about the noise.

@CharlieL I would guess they would park engines on the wye legs in Jamesburg. Not sure about the Southern. I’ve heard different answers as to where they are gonna park their engines there. One guy says Red Bank, another says at Woodhaven. (?¿?¿?)

As long as they leave room for whatever NJT does in Red Bank they should be okay parking there for the time being.

@JohnFromJersey While that is a possibility, we won’t be seeing it just yet. Conrail wants to keep the Amboy Secondary to Dayton because they’ve been getting longer trains lately. Unsure about Hightstown.

For right now they are probably also gonna keep the Sayerville RT since CMC Steel still gets their 10-17 cars per trip right now.

I believe housing is proposed for the former Ciba Geigy property, in part to satisfy Mount Laurel requirements.

They wanted to do that but the residents grilled the Tom’s River mayor over it. At one point they wanted to put a big industrial complex in there but so far nothing.

Two thoughts occur to me after the release of the filing for exemption - -

1) They will want to reconnect the Southern and the FIT as soon as they can, just for more efficient use of their motive power

and

2) the confidentiality of some of their filing leads me to speculate they may have an agreement on the handling of any sand train traffic, possibly D&RRR picking up the cars at Woodmansie with a consideration to SRNJ for the haulage, or something else ?

I love speculation, even though it usually makes me look like an idiot.

You're on the right track with #1.

#2. The confidentiality is more about the rates and payments that are in the three party lease agreement they make mention too. I believe it is mentioned in one of not all filings, it's a 10 year initial lease. I think there might be some destinations for Clayton's sand that might be over looked. I don't think C&D is interested in Clayton's line.

@CR7876 Didn’t Seashore Lines also do that confidentiality thing when they originally filed for Lakehurst-Woodmansie in 2010?

The name alone (Delaware and Raritan River) harkens back to the original Delaware and Raritan, the originator of the Southern. Makes me go HMMM. Not that I think there are any plans. Dreams, maybe.

@CharlieL Nice callback to the original name but why did they form a third company to run this area and not have Dover and Delaware do it?

At the same time though I’m glad that this is the case since Dover and Delaware is…………………….not the best, let’s leave it at that.

Correction to my above: Raritan and Delaware Bay Railroad.

The reason they have so many different companies is pretty straightforward: these are all shoestring startup operations; if one should fail, it can't take the others down with it. They are betting this will work, are playing with OPM (other people's money, the state grant(s)), as well as their own, but there's a risk.

With the high and rising price of fuel, and coming wage increases, the railroads are going to look better and better for mass transportation of goods. I think they have a good bet.

@CharlieL There more to this risk than just the cost of improvements.

Unlike many of the areas C&D operates in, there are other railroads/rail lines where the customers around here can move to or transload from should C&D do what Conrail has been doing since 2003 on this line. (High prices for poor service, trains being held for lack of crews, shipments delayed by derailments and other incidents, etc)

For quite some time in be been hearing that Woodhaven would move out of Lakewood if C&Ds service is not to their liking. Where would they go? My moneys on South Jersey or Dayton.

C&D does indeed have an opportunity to turn things around, but they need to play their cars 100 percent correctly. Fortunately their service (in the sense of actually bringing a train down on a chosen day with no delays caused by them) is better than Conrail, at least on the Dover and Delaware River operation. Can’t speak for DRRV, I don’t know their schedule.