Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by Dieter
I thought I had entered a topic, and it fell into cyberspace. If this topic has already been covered, I can't find it anywhere for reference.

In passing Croton North last month, I noticed that the F-Units were being cut up, with the cabs sitting in a line on the ground, and after they disappeared, the roof was cut off of one of the SPV 2000's sitting there.

This might be the first time in the history of railroading in this area that scrapping was actually carried out on the property, rather than selling off and sending away. It was all done very quickly, and I never saw people working on the actual torching.

Why are they torching this equipment on the property, and are the cabs being sold to collectors, or what is the story here?

If for some reason this topic is being deleted, it would be proper to leave this up for 72 hours with a link to redirect to where in this board this information exists, or some explanation rather than a blatant blowout.

Thank You! :-)


  by Alcochaser
Try reading the two sticky threads atop the forum!

  by Dieter
I've tried sifting through them, and it degenerates to movements of units. A page number might help? Thanks!


  by Otto Vondrak
Yeah, i dont think we have a cutting-stuff-up thread. Only 2040 is left in Croton East, we dont know where that's going, it wasn't cut up with the others. Now the SPVs are in the yard, stenciled FICX and ready to cut. So are some random stainless coaches of NYC ancestry. Also the 1077, and some other random cars. Any other news?

  by DutchRailnut
Reason this stuff is cut up on site is, the airbrakes etc are all out of date, and before moving they would all require new valves and brake cylinder overhaul. by cutting them up on site MNCR is saving thousands of $$$$$$

  by Otto Vondrak
In the case of 1077, it is more than 50 years old, having been built in the 195-51 order of ACMU's from St. Louis Car Co.... even if 1077 was in better shape, there would probably be no way to move this car in interchange because of the 50-year FRA rule, right?


  by DutchRailnut
There is no 50 year FRA rule, as long as car complies with brake requirements and roller bearings. 1077 did comply with both but was outlawed for brakevalves and brake cylinders and COTS.

  by Otto Vondrak
I thought I had read something about a 50-year mandatory retirement rule for cars in interchange, thank you for setting me straight.


  by Noel Weaver
Actually, cutting up locomotives and cars too is not new on railroad
I can recall in the 1960's, the New Haven Railroad leased areas of Cedar
Hill Yard to various scrappers which scrapped assorted passenger and
freight cars as well as various diesel and electric locomotives.
I suspect that some other railroads scrapped locomotives at home too.
Especially in the days of steam although most of them were shipped off to
various steel mills.
Noel Weaver
  by H.F.Malone
50-year limit applies to revenue, interchange freight cars as listed in UMLER. It is more an AAR requirement than a FRA mandate. And, doesn't apply to passenger cars, anyway, as they are not "revenue interchange cars".

North Croton is a great convienience for MNCR, as they can drag and dump the old crap there sans brakes and other stuff it would need to move off-line, and the cutters can get right up to the stuff and chop away. 347 Madison Ave prefers to sell the scrap to one outfit; it's much easier that way.

  by Dieter
Thanks for the update. I knew that vandals couldn't be that well organized! :P

Did Danbury get an SPV 2000? When I saw the first hack job, I assumed the prime mover was torn out. The seats are standard issue, was there any consideration to removing them and selling them to collectors?

Any reason why CDOT, or anybody else, didn't purchase the SPV's for coach conversion?

A MN employee told me that the old New York Central lamps were sold to collectors, which I thought was strange since I'd never seen/heard anything about it. For example, the old mercury vapor lights first installed on the platform at Cortlandt I was told were vintage New York Central fixtures. Given the history of that organization, aren't you surprised they weren't sold off for scrap, or used for fill?

Anyway, the story was that the steel lamp posts were so prone to lightning strikes, that they were replaced with the oversized "Plastic Cathedral Bells" fixtures. Why that was cheaper than grounding the fixture I will never figure out!

It seems to me that MN could have made more money in a creative disposal, than hiring a guy with a torch.

What if anything was saved?


  by Clean Cab
MN tried for years and years to sell the SPVs, but found no takers. The good news is that at one time there were almost 20 FL-9s on the "Dead Line" and quite a few of them found homes across the country. The original SPV #50 was preserved, although why anyone would want to preserve such a total disaster as the SPV (Seldom Powered Vehilces) is beyond me. Likewise with the equally ill fated FL9-AC "Starships". To think that among the Starships to have already been scrapped was LIRR FL-9AC #301 which was the original New Haven Railroad FL-9 #2000. It took this unwise project to prove that even the mighty and durable FL-9s have their limits!!!

  by Otto Vondrak
I figured the rule would apply only if the car had to be moved off-line for scrapping.

Many SPV's were converted and rebuilt as "Constitution-liner" coaches for CDOT's Shore Line East operation. Haven't seen them around lately?


  by Dieter
How could Budd fail with the SPV (Spectrum Persuit Vehicle - remember that one??) after the success they had with the RDC?

It's amazing that the SPV's weren't cut up years ago, since they nearly failed out of the gate. Too bad that #2000 fell to the torch as well.

Not being torched locally are the M-1's, but isn't it funny how determined the RR is to make these things rot and unusable by parking them and leaving doors and windows open? Let's face it, any self respecting railfan would close the door or window, then again if he's fool enough to climb on it.......