• CSX to acquire Pan Am Railways

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
newpylong wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:10 pmNot sure what you are referring to about one a day. They are always going to run at least 2 pair between Ayer and Portland. 1 will be the priority i.e. 426 the other won't be and will do the setoffs ie ED/AYPO.
Mr. Newpy, following this discussion, it appeared to me that there was only "one a day" in each direction (roundly Boston-Portland) over the trackage maintained with public funds to Class 4 passenger train standards. If these two agencies, MBTA and NNEPRA, have not imposed any limitations on what and when Chessie may run, that's great to learn.
  by johnpbarlow
 
If NS does acquire CSX portion of PAS, would G&W B&E still be the PAS operator? Also I’m guessing if NS comes to own 100% of the PAS property, NS IM trackage rights trains over CSX B&A wouldn’t happen.
  by MEC407
 
At this time, as well as historically, NNEPRA has not imposed any significant limitations on freight traffic. Keep in mind that NNEPRA peacefully coexisted with Pan Am during the early 2000s when Pan Am was running more trains than they do today, e.g. POED and EDPO every day, POSE and SEPO every day, daytime locals to Saco / Biddeford / Wells that ran at least three days a week, more-frequent DOBO and BODO trains to feed the Big Dig, etc. It seems to me that CSX could easily double the number of trains they're running in NNEPRA territory and not have any problems. And that situation will get even easier in the near future when the new double track between Wells and North Berwick is finished.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
First, please to learn Mr. Maine Central's immediate report.

Mr. Barlow, while of course deferring to those "with boots on the ground" in the region, it would seem that Genesse would simply have to "forget it" if Topper becomes 100% owner of the existing PAS.

But, as Mr. Newpy - one with "boots..." - reports, there are 49 miles of FRA Class 1 on PAS; and that hardly makes for the expedient movement of trains - especially those handling high value traffic. How many of those 49 miles are on the East-West "route of The Flying Yankee" has not been reported here (wish I knew the name of those applicable Subs, but I don't).

I suppose Topper has decided that he could command enough traffic with Shipper's Routings - especially if that traffic is being consigned to a point only he serves and that "kitty kitty" had best accept such. After all, to make a timely interchange serves her interests as well.
  by newpylong
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:59 am
newpylong wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:10 pmNot sure what you are referring to about one a day. They are always going to run at least 2 pair between Ayer and Portland. 1 will be the priority i.e. 426 the other won't be and will do the setoffs ie ED/AYPO.
Mr. Newpy, following this discussion, it appeared to me that there was only "one a day" in each direction (roundly Boston-Portland) over the trackage maintained with public funds to Class 4 passenger train standards. If these two agencies, MBTA and NNEPRA, have not imposed any limitations on what and when Chessie may run, that's great to learn.
No - 2 pairs per day. M426/427 and EDPO/POED. It's not Amtrak nor NNEPRA's track to impose restrictions on.
Last edited by newpylong on Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by newpylong
 
johnpbarlow wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:14 am If NS does acquire CSX portion of PAS, would G&W B&E still be the PAS operator? Also I’m guessing if NS comes to own 100% of the PAS property, NS IM trackage rights trains over CSX B&A wouldn’t happen.
GWI would be out of the picture. Yes, I would assume that those rights would cease to be exercised and more of an effort to enlarge the tunnel would be made.

This is still all a big what if. The delay in assumption of operations of PAS by GWI at this time as far as I know is still labor related, and not this. However there could be back room discussion about whether it still makes sense given the apparent balking of both NS and GWI on their long term desires.
  by pnolette
 
MEC407 wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:31 am At this time, as well as historically, NNEPRA has not imposed any significant limitations on freight traffic. Keep in mind that NNEPRA peacefully coexisted with Pan Am during the early 2000s when Pan Am was running more trains than they do today, e.g. POED and EDPO every day, POSE and SEPO every day, daytime locals to Saco / Biddeford / Wells that ran at least three days a week, more-frequent DOBO and BODO trains to feed the Big Dig, etc. It seems to me that CSX could easily double the number of trains they're running in NNEPRA territory and not have any problems. And that situation will get even easier in the near future when the new double track between Wells and North Berwick is finished.
NNEPRA has no say into how many freights run State Line to Rigby.They do not own that line.
  by MEC407
 
I know they don't own it. But they do have a contract with the host railroad that gives them a certain amount of "say" in terms of performance standards that the host railroad must meet, which include delays related to dispatching, freight train interference, etc. Remember, the State of Maine (via NNEPRA) has invested over $120 million in that host railroad. The host railroad has to meet their obligations to NNEPRA or else they'd be in breach of contract.
  by newpylong
 
An anecdotal comparison, in 2009 when PAS was formed NS transferred over a $130M to Pan Am in cash and assets. There has been an unknown (yet large) amount put into the partnership since the inception as well. What do they have for it today? Infrastructure that is just as bad off as pre-2009. The lipstick has thoroughly worn off.

One of my contacts at NS in summary said they largely stopped funding Pan Am because the money would just "disappear". IMHO for that kind of coin it should still be Class 3 from Mechanicville to Westminster.
  by Safetee
 
Apparently it was a solid class six from NS to TM
  by ProRail
 
johnpbarlow wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:14 am If NS does acquire CSX portion of PAS, would G&W B&E still be the PAS operator? Also I’m guessing if NS comes to own 100% of the PAS property, NS IM trackage rights trains over CSX B&A wouldn’t happen.

NS has ZERO interest in absorbing Pan Am Southern into the NS system and they can't based on the terms they agreed to with CSX, VTR and others. G&W is still working on all the union agreements.
  by Cosakita18
 
newpylong wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:05 am No - 2 pairs per day. M426/427 and EDPO/POED.
Is there really enough traffic coming to/from Maine to warrant two daily train pairs west of Rigby? I was under the impression that (as of now) M426/27 was daily, and EDPO/POED was a 3x weekly job. Am I oversimplifying?
  by newpylong
 
Yes, there is enough.
  by newpylong
 
ProRail wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:29 pm NS has ZERO interest in absorbing Pan Am Southern into the NS system and they can't based on the terms they agreed to with CSX, VTR and others. G&W is still working on all the union agreements.
They most certainly could if they really wanted to down the road, but it would obviously require buying CSX out contingent on entirely new regulatory approval. I am skeptical of the rumor at this point.
  by CN9634
 
New NS CEO came on in May has been re-evaluating everything including PAS... by the time he arrived the CSX deal was all but done however the buyout clause is still something they can exercise.

I don't know what the regulatory process would look like if they exercised that option, but the price has already been determined and that was in the redacted STB application which as we all know has been approved.... so the STB is aware and "prejudged" that deal if you will.

I've heard of some changes in the B&E plan too... maybe for this reason?
  • 1
  • 264
  • 265
  • 266
  • 267
  • 268
  • 278