• CSX to acquire Pan Am Railways

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

  • 2446 posts
  • 1
  • 134
  • 135
  • 136
  • 137
  • 138
  • 164
  by Cosakita18
 
Reading through the STB filing, there is mention of "Chemical and energy imports into New England originating from diverse origins"

This makes me think that either:

1) CSX is hoping to bring more refined product from SJ into New England and the Northeast by rail.

2) CSX does have some sort of plan to utilize the Sprague and Global terminals at the Port of Portland (and perhaps Portsmouth to a lesser extent) for oil and chemical imports.
  by roberttosh
 
LPG, Butane, Ethanol, ULS Diesel, CBR, Bio-Fuels, Liquid Asphalt to name a few.
  by MEC407
 
CSX just paid 700 million . . .
Says who? I keep seeing all these different numbers being thrown around. $700 million, $750 million, $800 million. The price has not been disclosed by either party and it's redacted in the STB filings, so where are people getting these numbers?
  by F74265A
 
taracer wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:42 pm The point I'm making is there is no way CSX is going to deal with the current way to go up the branch from CP45. There is no way that the G&W in St. Albans will control CSX movements from CP45 to Barber after this sale. We are at their mercy there right now.

CSX just paid 700 million, I'm pretty sure they knew they would have to rebuild that track . Expect this whole area to be reconfigured.
Does p&w own both tracks behind union station and up through the tunnel under downtown Worcester? If so, and my understanding, which may be incorrect, is that they do, no way to get rid of p&w dispatch even if the north bound main is rebuilt all the way to garden st area Unless csx and gwi cooperate and cut some kind of additional deal. Presumably csx will want to do so to minimize delays caused by p&w that could affect the ability to run Selkirk to the desired point on the pan am system with one crew
  by newpylong
 
None of this is going to happen anytime soon, the scheduled consummation date is 210 days out for the main application (below).

SECTION 1180.6(a)(1)(ii)
PROPOSED TIME SCHEDULE FOR CONSUMMATION
NS intends to consummate this transaction no sooner than March 27, 2021 (the
anticipated effective date of the transaction), or when the related proceeding filed in Docket No.
FD 36472 is approved and consummated, whichever is later.



The existing connecting track is going to be removed at VO, not only is it toast but it is too close to the buildings and now that the diamond is gone the curve can be made more gradual. The entire grade in that area will be brought up level to the Selkirk Branch and CP-VO extended to the east, with the first crossover moved so that the NS trains can change mains after entering CSX.

As for NS and CSX crews having to deal to deal with the P&W from CP45 to Barbers, this is not going to change. Minor inconvenience compared to the lack of staging area, they only run the single turn job a day and this is not likely to change to start.
  by taracer
 
Rumors are around 700 million. I'm sure everything will be redone at VO at some point, but come on you were a rail, you know they can work and run trains at the same time. The bypass tracks around Selkirk were 10 MPH for a few years before the finally finished them to 30 and 40 MPH.

I'm not sue you all understand the bottleneck the B&A main has become at Worcester, I keep seeing posts on how they used to run it in the '90's. I'm telling you todays realities. For example, there is no crew base now on the east end of the B&A like there was back then. No one is getting recrew by a Worcester or Framingham crew now. Recrews come from Selkirk or West Springfield. Maybe a Worcester yard job, but then they can't do their work so things get even more backed up.

Q022 is a long pool out of DeWitt, and can't be held or else they won't make it to Worcester. You claim one turn job on the P&W is no big deal, but if your at New Bond and the P&W, really G&W, won't let you go in a certain slot, you are done. You guys really don't know the operational complexities now.

I think I'm done here.
  by bostontrainguy
 
taracer wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:02 pm The VO connection is easily upgraded to a 15 MPH connecting track for the trackage rights. Easily done in about 30 days to get it working.

I'm not saying its going to be right on the 27th, but close.
The connection at VO doesn't even exist anymore. You got to rebuild the branch line, add a switch and new crossovers and signals on the mainline. Plus there is a grade crossing right in the middle of everything. There is going to be a bit of work there to get things done and it will take a while.
  by jamoldover
 
F74265A wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:40 pm Does p&w own both tracks behind union station and up through the tunnel under downtown Worcester? If so, and my understanding, which may be incorrect, is that they do, no way to get rid of p&w dispatch even if the north bound main is rebuilt all the way to garden st area Unless csx and gwi cooperate and cut some kind of additional deal. Presumably csx will want to do so to minimize delays caused by p&w that could affect the ability to run Selkirk to the desired point on the pan am system with one crew
The ownership situation of the lower portion of the Gardner Branch (the ex-Worcester & Nashua portion, as opposed to the ex-Boston, Barre, & Gardner portion) is a bit complicated. P&W owns and controls the tracks. The B&M owns the land underneath them (per Worcester's GIS online property map). That's the case all the way from the junction at Barbers down to the Franklin St bridge. I have no idea what the terms are of the agreement that was made between the B&M and P&W that resulted in this hybrid situation, but if CSX will be taking over ownership of the land, I would guess that they might be able to do some track construction along it that wouldn't impact the P&W (as long as it was all north of Garden St, since there's no room to enlarge the tunnel).

Joshua
Last edited by MEC407 on Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: excessive quoting
  by jamoldover
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:44 pm The connection at VO doesn't even exist anymore. You got to rebuild the branch line, add a switch and new crossovers and signals on the mainline. Plus there is a grade crossing right in the middle of everything. There is going to be a bit of work there to get things done and it will take a while.
Aside from (possibly) extending the limits of the current CP-VO (which was moved north about 1/8 mile from the old location after the D&H abandoned the line between VO and Kenwood Yard), CSX isn't going to add any infrastructure at all to make this happen. What they're most likely to do is make the connection to the NS branch an electric-lock switch (which is what it used to be under Conrail when the connection actually existed). NS will call the CSX dispatcher for permission to unlock the switch and come out. No need for new signals or anything else expensive.
The next existing interlocking to the south is CP-FB, which is only 5 miles down the tracks from VO. NS wouldn't need to cross over, anyway. That would only be needed if they were coming into Selkirk Yard (which they won't be). CP-FB provides the connection to the Selkirk Bypass (which is on the south side of the yard); NS will simply take that through the area at track speed (30 MPH), head out at the east end of the yard at CP-SK, and keep going east onto the B&A.
  by F74265A
 
Don’t be done
You have great info
Would the acquisition cause csx to add a crew base closer by? Back in Worcester? Ayer? Silly to have the closest crews in NY or Springfield
If the north main were rebuilt to the Worcester tunnel then each RR could have its own track if a deal were cut
  by taracer
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:44 pm The connection at VO doesn't even exist anymore. You got to rebuild the branch line, add a switch and new crossovers and signals on the mainline. Plus there is a grade crossing right in the middle of everything. There is going to be a bit of work there to get things done and it will take a while.
Look again, it is still basically there. A real easy restoration.
  by taracer
 
Look again, it is still basically there. A real easy restoration to get trains running at 10-15 MPH through the work area with bulletins
  by taracer
 
F74265A wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:03 pm
Would the acquisition cause csx to add a crew base closer by? Back in Worcester? Ayer? Silly to have the closest crews in NY or Springfield
If the north main were rebuilt to the Worcester tunnel then each RR could have its own track if a deal were cut
We don't know yet. I'm hearing sonority may be dovetailed, so that could help with crew shortages.

The current crew situation was mainly caused by the closing of Beacon Park back in 2013. Lots of people on the east end go to the T too.
  by roberttosh
 
I think we can all agree that CSX is going to need to make some operational changes for everything to run smoothly through the Worcester terminal, like changing crew bases and perhaps reinstating Q437 and or Q422/423 in order to keep the main lines through CP45 clear. That being said, as we speak, there are only 8 through trains a day operating through Worcester (2 of which run up the Ayer line) plus 2 Amtrak trains. Back in the 90's, you had 22-24 through trains a day operating through Worcester (8+ up the Ayer line), plus 6 Amtrak trains and that was before they had the flexibility of the siding (3rd track) being extended all the way to East Worcester yard. Again, there clearly will need to be some juggling around, but judging from past fluid traffic levels which were around 3 times what they are today, I just can't see how this is all of a sudden going to become an insurmountable operational nightmare.
  by J.D. Lang
 
I don't think you would have to redo the crossovers at CP-VO. Like was said just put an interlock switch. They will have to do quite a bit of reconfiguring of the roads that intersect there with newly configured grade crossings.

Also reading through the filed agreement NS is going to use their own crews to run over the B&A. This means that they either run with CSX pilots till their own trainman get qualified or get qualified before running the pair of trains.

AS pointed out this will not take place until the buyout by CSXT is approved. So I don't think a shovel will be put in the ground at VO or will you see NS trainman prequalifying until the ink dries.
  • 1
  • 134
  • 135
  • 136
  • 137
  • 138
  • 164