• CSX Bridge work delayed by Conrail owned railroad land

  • Discussion of the operations of CSX Transportation, from 1980 to the present. Official site can be found here: CSXT.COM.
Discussion of the operations of CSX Transportation, from 1980 to the present. Official site can be found here: CSXT.COM.

Moderator: MBTA F40PH-2C 1050

  by hotbike
 
Hello folks,

I came across this article today, and I don't understand how CSX would have to get permission from Conrail to replace a bridge. What follows is a link, and an excerpt from the article, and then my reply to the newspaper which printed the article, which encapsulates my best understanding of the situation. I am completely baffled.

Can anyone shed some light on this topic? Is Ohio DOT making this up?


http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/5068857?page=0

Excerpt from Article:
"By Mike Sever | Staff Writer
The century-old Rock Spring Road bridge in Charlestown is going to get a little older.
Portage County commissioners this week accepted a $200,000 grant from the Ohio Public Works Commission toward replacement of the humpbacked, wood-truss span. The total cost was estimated at $700,000 in 2007. CSX Railroad got federal stimulus money for an upgrade of its system which includes a new, higher Rock Spring Road bridge.
But replacement plans are being held up by a small strip of land that is owned by Conrail.
“It runs alongside the CSX track under the bridge. One of the (new bridge) piers would sit on Conrail land,” said Portage County Engineer Michael Marozzi. He said CSX needs an easement from Conrail in order to build the new bridge and so far the two have not come to an agreement.
Marozzi said the problem would never have arisen if his advice had been followed. He said he had recommended that the Ohio Department of Transportation administer the project but CSX insisted on doing it.
Marozzi said ODOT has the authority to take an easement by eminent domain while CSX does not..."



"There MUST be more to this story...
Back in 1999, CSX bought Conrail. Actually, Conrail was sold for ten Billion dollars, and CSX and Norfolk Southern split Conrail up. Conrail was made up of the Pennsylvania RR, the New York Central RR, and some other smaller RR's, like the Jersey Central, the Reading, the Lehigh Valley, and the Eire-Lackawanna RR. The maps were changed, and CSX got roughly the New York Central east of Cleveland, and the NY Central west of Cleveland. (Norfolk Southern got the PRR east of Cleveland and the NYC west of Cleveland) .
However, the previous owners of Conrail were very shrewd, and they kept Conrail alive in the form of Conrail Shared Assets Area, Conrail SAA. Also , when the $ Ten Billion $ dollar sale went through, the stock was transferred, but Conrail kept many of the underlying Bonds. Also, the Conrail SAA trackage is located in three places, Detroit, Philidelphia, and Northern New Jersey, neither of which is located in Ohio. Something is wrong with this story. And if the line goes to Baltimore, then it would be part of the B&O , Baltimore and Ohio, which was NEVER part of Conrail.

Someone please explain."
  by PARailWiz
 
In the past, were there two railroads running here, with one having been abandoned? When Conrail was split up, some abandoned right-of-ways and other parcels that neither NS nor CSX wanted were left with Conrail. It's possible something like that occurred here, and I seem to recall that Portage County had a fair number of abandonments.
  by jtunnel
 
Railroads diversify within themselves. The railroad might be gone, but holding companies might still remain.

Penn Central got our of the railroad business, but has a real estate arm that is still around, The former Penn Central Corporation changed its name to American Premier Underwriters in March 1994. They still hold onto a good amount of real estate and air rights.

Burlington Northern had a real estate holding company and if you check Conrail's Corporate site, they too still have a real estate company.

http://www.conrail.com/contacts.htm

If you want to transport something, you contact CSX or NS. You want to build something or bury a pipeline, you call the Conrail Real Estate Office.
  by PARailWiz
 
If you want to transport something, you contact CSX or NS. You want to build something or bury a pipeline, you call the Conrail Real Estate Office.
You only call the Conrail Real Estate Office for projects in either Conrail Shared Assets territory or on stray land parcels they happen to still own. 99.9% of the time, you still want to contact NS or CSX for property / utility construction on lines they operate (including the ones they acquired from Conrail).
  by hotbike
 
As I said in the OP; ".... the stock was transferred, but Conrail kept many of the underlying Bonds."

So apparently , this strip of land in Charlestown, Ohio, is one of those "stray land parcels they happen to still own."

Does anyone know which *two* railroads once went through Charlestown, Ohio?

And can CSX sink a bridge pier in the *other* Right of Way without severing a fiber optic line, or natural gas pipeline?

Just a wee bit curious. Thank you in advance for digging up any relevant information.
  by shlustig
 
IIRC, this arrangement dates back to x-PRR (nee C&P) planning to parallel the B&O from Ravenna to Niles in otder to connect with another PRR line (PY&A / PFtW&C Detour Branch) to provide a Cleveland / Youngstown / Pittsburgh through route. The PRR didn't build its own line Ravenna to Niles and instead had a trackage rights arrangment over the B&O Ravenna to Niles Jct. which lasted until ended by Conrail.
  by hotbike
 
shlustig wrote:IIRC, this arrangement dates back to x-PRR (nee C&P) planning to parallel the B&O from Ravenna to Niles in otder to connect with another PRR line (PY&A / PFtW&C Detour Branch) to provide a Cleveland / Youngstown / Pittsburgh through route. The PRR didn't build its own line Ravenna to Niles and instead had a trackage rights arrangment over the B&O Ravenna to Niles Jct. which lasted until ended by Conrail.
Great.

Now, I talked to another railfan over the Telephone (some of us still aren't connected to the internet), and he said the third track , parallel to the B&O, was the T&OC-the Toledo and Ohio Central. I looked up Toledo and Ohio Central on Google, and I found this wonderful link, which gives a timeline of the T&OC:

http://members.kconline.com/plank/tocpred.htm

Which includes:
"1952 Toledo and Ohio Central merged into New York Central"

So that's how the T&OC became part of Conrail.

Thank you, this has been a good thread.
  by shlustig
 
Nope, This was not T&OC.

T&OC had two routes between Toledo and Corning where they merged into a single route to Charleston, WV. The T&OC Eastern via Bucyrus and Edison was abandoned in early Conrail years; the T&OC Western via Ridgeway and Columbus is in use today and was the route of the CSX "Crazy 8's runaway train of a few years ago.

The proposed line parallel to the B&O in Portage County through Charlestown was Pennsy. If it helps, this was the mainline on the south side of the Ravenna Arsenal.
  by hotbike
 
shlustig wrote:Nope, This was not T&OC.

T&OC had two routes between Toledo and Corning where they merged into a single route to Charleston, WV. The T&OC Eastern via Bucyrus and Edison was abandoned in early Conrail years; the T&OC Western via Ridgeway and Columbus is in use today and was the route of the CSX "Crazy 8's runaway train of a few years ago.

The proposed line parallel to the B&O in Portage County through Charlestown was Pennsy. If it helps, this was the mainline on the south side of the Ravenna Arsenal.
Yes, another source indicates that the line was proposed, but never built. However, Conrail still owns the Right of Way land.

Secondly, we don't want to get confused by the fact that there are TWO (2) towns named "CHARLESTOWN" , one in West Virginia, and this one in Ohio.
  by lakeshoredave
 
talk about controversial. tiger woods, lebron james, brett favre, cm punk, and cam newton all find this bridge work to be controversial!