CP 229 Fire

Jersey_Mike wrote:What sort of relays were those on the racks that got burnt out. Aren't vital relays supposed to be all covered in glass?

Contrast with CP-4

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos ... 8485865565" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The damage was in the non vital CIL house. But the wiring harnesses along with the relays were severely damaged. Every relay and every inch of wire has to be specifically designed and built for the location. There are on "off the shelf" spare parts for a system as old as this one.

Jersey_Mike wrote:What sort of relays were those on the racks that got burnt out. Aren't vital relays supposed to be all covered in glass?

Contrast with CP-4
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 8485865565

That's plastic, not glass. The last time I saw glass on a relay was the centrifugal relays we still have in Sunnyside Yard.

Clean Cab wrote:

Jersey_Mike wrote:What sort of relays were those on the racks that got burnt out. Aren't vital relays supposed to be all covered in glass?

Contrast with CP-4

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos ... 8485865565" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The damage was in the non vital CIL house. But the wiring harnesses along with the relays were severely damaged. Every relay and every inch of wire has to be specifically designed and built for the location. There are on "off the shelf" spare parts for a system as old as this one.

So this was the CTC code-line equipment?

BTW most large relays do have on-the-shelf replacements because most carry out only basic logic functions. The stuff that's not replaceable are like 70's and 80's printed circuit boards and wire wrap micro relays.

The portion of the system that was damage was the switch controls. The cab signal indication system was not damaged. Word is within a week they will have created a board of toggle switches to allow RTC's (at the location) to set crossover routes when needed. The system is an old GRS version from the early 1980's. CDOT had planned to phase it out for the newer solid state Genesys type used in all newer interlockings (CP 215, CP 216, CP 217, CP 232, CP 235, CP 240, CP 248, CP 271, CP 272, CP 273 & CP 274).

Jersey_Mike wrote:What sort of relays were those on the racks that got burnt out. Aren't vital relays supposed to be all covered in glass?

Contrast with CP-4

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos ... 8485865565" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And will they replace the electromechanical relays with digital relays? Here in the electric transmission business a single digital relay will replace many electromechanicals, be continuously self testing with automatic alarm to the system operators for failure, unusual conditions, record events, setting changes done by a laptop computer plugged in, essentially replacing an entire rack with a single, more reliable, device.

Ken W2KB wrote: And will they replace the electromechanical relays with digital relays? Here in the electric transmission business a single digital relay will replace many electromechanicals, be continuously self testing with automatic alarm to the system operators for failure, unusual conditions, record events, setting changes done by a laptop computer plugged in, essentially replacing an entire rack with a single, more reliable, device.

They can do either, the key is that when you are looking to replace discrete logic elements the "off the shelf" shelf is pretty well stocked. There is this fallacy that just because the interlocking hardware is decades old means one has to buy something radically more modern to replace it. That's like saying that you have to buy a new plastic rake between a bolt fell off your old metal one. Relay based signaling logic became super standardized with multiple vendors making interchangeable components. It was only when signaling started moving into stuff with PCB's and integrated circuits that the vendors were able to make everything proprietary again as well as introduce a planned obsolescence of 20-30 years.

Europe takes this a step further with priority being given to replace the 1960's/70's era interlockings, which used now unobtainable telephone exchange type equipment, over the 1890's mechanical signaling because the latter can still be maintained with basic tools.

Clean Cab wrote:The portion of the system that was damage was the switch controls. The cab signal indication system was not damaged. Word is within a week they will have created a board of toggle switches to allow RTC's (at the location) to set crossover routes when needed. The system is an old GRS version from the early 1980's. CDOT had planned to phase it out for the newer solid state Genesys type used in all newer interlockings (CP 215, CP 216, CP 217, CP 232, CP 235, CP 240, CP 248, CP 271, CP 272, CP 273 & CP 274).

What do you mean by switch controls? Making sure that points can't throw under a train and that the interlocking logic state matches the condition of interlocking appliances are a fairly vital operation that took a fair amount of time for GRS and US&S to get right.

Mike, Thank you for the info!

Metro North C&S is creating a simple model board within the CIL house to allow the setting of diverting and non diverting routes that will allow for limited operation of CP 229 until all repairs are made. That's the only explanation I've been able to get.

The location does not have a local control panel? That is a bit of a surprise. In the link Mike put up before of the CP at Spuyten Duyvil had one. All of our interlockings at Amtrak have a local control panel in case of code line failure or often we will take local control during switch inspections to speed the process up a bit.

Did Metro-North lose all of their blocks and spikes in the move to that fancy room in Grand Central?

Which of the four tracks are affected by repair efforts? Is the entire interlocking at CP 229 out of service?

Andy

yes ,everything is spiked no way to turn traffic so 2 and east bound and 1 and 3 westbound.
their working on setting up a local switch control.

mvb119 wrote:The location does not have a local control panel? That is a bit of a surprise. In the link Mike put up before of the CP at Spuyten Duyvil had one. All of our interlockings at Amtrak have a local control panel in case of code line failure or often we will take local control during switch inspections to speed the process up a bit.

A local control panel is at this location, but use less as it uses the same non-vital lp100 network that was damaged in the fire. Currently switches a spiked, blocked, clamped for non-divirting routes. Signals are fleated east on tk 2&4 and west on 1&3. Basically right now the only way to make changes is to manually pole over each vital relay one at a time.

DutchRailnut wrote:yes ,everything is spiked no way to turn traffic so 2 and east bound and 1 and 3 westbound.
their working on setting up a local switch control.

Are they still turning trains at 223 during rush hour or is that out of the question?

they have to, cp223 is ok, and you need to turn the Harrison locals, unless they run them thru bottle neck to Stamford.