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  • Coupling / de-coupling Passenger Trains

  • General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

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 #1335618  by FRN9
 
In the UK, it is standard to combine and divide trains (EMUs) at junction stops. An example being Horsham.

Did any commuter railroad in the US/Northeast ever do this? Amtrak did this at New Haven, but it was combined with an engine swap and took a lot of time.

I'm wondering if it was ever possible to do this quickly (<5 minutes)? I would imagine that combining would be more difficult than dividing due to signaling.
 #1335620  by TomNelligan
 
That sort of thing has never been as common in North America as in the UK, but there have been historical cases of commuter trains comprised of self-propelled cars that split or were combined en route. If you don't mind an example from more than 30 years ago, when the Lackwanna/Erie Lackawanna and later New Jersey Transit ran the original Lackwanna DC MUs out of Hoboken, NJ, some trains would split or be combined at Summit, where the Gladstone branch and the mainline to Dover diverged. Going back even farther, to the 1950s, both the New Haven RR and the Boston & Maine ran some schedules with Budd RDC consists that split or combined en route.

I assume you're not asking about intercity trains. Pre-Amtrak, consist splits and combinations en route were quite common, especially in later years when previously separate trains to different destinations were combined over part of their route. Amtrak continued the practice on a few routes and still does it with the Lake Shore Limited and Empire Builder Boston and Portland sections respectively.
 #1335627  by FRN9
 
Tom,

This is very interesting. Thank you. Do you know anything about the signalling involved at Summit of how long it took to combine coaches? Any reason it would be more difficult with two MLVs / alp46a sets? Perhaps with engine at each end?
TomNelligan wrote:That sort of thing has never been as common in North America as in the UK, but there have been historical cases of commuter trains comprised of self-propelled cars that split or were combined en route. If you don't mind an example from more than 30 years ago, when the Lackwanna/Erie Lackawanna and later New Jersey Transit ran the original Lackwanna DC MUs out of Hoboken, NJ, some trains would split or be combined at Summit, where the Gladstone branch and the mainline to Dover diverged. Going back even farther, to the 1950s, both the New Haven RR and the Boston & Maine ran some schedules with Budd RDC consists that split or combined en route.

I assume you're not asking about intercity trains. Pre-Amtrak, consist splits and combinations en route were quite common, especially in later years when previously separate trains to different destinations were combined over part of their route. Amtrak continued the practice on a few routes and still does it with the Lake Shore Limited and Empire Builder Boston and Portland sections respectively.
 #1335653  by djlong
 
I know you asked only about commuter railroads but you did mention Amtrak. Amtrak still does this with the Lakeshore Limited. Eastbound, they split at Albany NY - one section goes to New York City, the other goes to Boston. Westbound, the two trains unite at Albany and continue on to Chicago.
 #1335658  by TomNelligan
 
FRN9 wrote: Do you know anything about the signalling involved at Summit of how long it took to combine coaches? Any reason it would be more difficult with two MLVs / alp46a sets? Perhaps with engine at each end?
I don't know about signaling, but the coupling/uncoupling operation with the Lackawanna MUs was a five minute process handled by the train crews. It's a lot harder these days because of a combination of more cables to connect (no HEP back then), FRA regulations, and union rules.
 #1335674  by electricron
 
To meet your 5 minute goal, the trains will need an automatic coupler/connector like a Scharfenberg coupler.
Image
Photo credit: Heidas
All the lightweight DMU commuter operators in North America use them, none of the heavyweight commuter train operators do. Some light rail operators in North America do, others do not. I'm not aware of any light rail or DMU commuter train operators in North America splitting one train into two trains, or making a larger train from two smaller trains, with passengers aboard today.
YouTube video of Scharfenberg couplers auto coupling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWTQ7ER7g-o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 #1335693  by ExCon90
 
The DL&W did it at Summit all day long, day in and day out, for decades with standard knuckle couplers and the associated hose connections, usually in 3 or 4 minutes at most. As Tom Nelligan points out, it's impossible today with the checklist of steps that have to be carried out. I don't think signaling ever slowed things down at Summit; as far as I know the second train to arrive was admitted on a Restricting indication (similar to a calling-on signal in the UK); there was a manned tower there at the time. In the light-rail category, the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin in Illinois and Pacific Electric in the Los Angeles area had regular split-and-combine operations back in the day.

Anybody: did the Illinois Central ever do that regularly at Kensington?
Last edited by ExCon90 on Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1335709  by DutchRailnut
 
these days with HEP and all regulations for blue light protection it would not be possible to do it in that amount of time
 #1335710  by FRN9
 
This is great. Thank you. Bombardier's Schaku sounds like the perfect answer. With Positive Train Control, perhaps some of the signaling issues can also be solved. For NJT, it would involve modifying the couplers on the ALP46a and MLV cab cars.


electricron wrote:To meet your 5 minute goal, the trains will need an automatic coupler/connector like a Scharfenberg coupler.
Image
Photo credit: Heidas
All the lightweight DMU commuter operators in North America use them, none of the heavyweight commuter train operators do. Some light rail operators in North America do, others do not. I'm not aware of any light rail or DMU commuter train operators in North America splitting one train into two trains, or making a larger train from two smaller trains, with passengers aboard today.
YouTube video of Scharfenberg couplers auto coupling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWTQ7ER7g-o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 #1335717  by YamaOfParadise
 
I know the New Haven Railroad did it for the Medway/Millis Branch toward the discontinuance of service on the branch. They ran a Budd RDC on this branch, and it would attach/detach from a Needham Branch train at Needham Junction.

It's a shame that things like this aren't done more often; there's likely a number of cases where this would make running commuter rail to places economic. It'd also really help expand services in electrified zones. I suppose it doesn't help that there really aren't any DMUs out there that fill the same versatility and reliability of the Budd RDC, nor any DMUs that are designed with this kind of operation in mind for the North American market.
 #1336202  by Ocala Mike
 
Utilizing RDC's in that manner undoubtedly voided the factory warranty. I know the LIRR ran into problems with this back in the day with their Budd stuff.
 #1336208  by DutchRailnut
 
why would it ??? the RDC's were MUed when coupled.
 #1336294  by nomis
 
Splitting RDC's enroute was a Budd selling feature as the PRSL used their RDC's, splitting and combining at both Tuckahoe and Wildwood Jct.

Currently SEPTA will split a consist or two of EMU's during the PM rush at Wilmington, with one section continuing towards Newark & the other half returning to Philadelphia. This is done solely by the train crews & takes only a couple minutes.
 #1336328  by ExCon90
 
I forgot all about the PRSL. For FRN9's benefit, the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines for years ran trains of six RDC1's from Camden to Cape May, dropping two at Tuckahoe which took the branch to Ocean City, and two more at Wildwood Junction for Wildwood, with only two continuing to Cape May. On the return trip they coupled at those points. Of course this was back before present-day requirements were imposed, and the process went quickly, probably by the time the necessary manual-block procedures were carried out up in the tower.