Commuter Rail Electrification

Mod Note: Good discussion here folks but we're on the wrong channel. Let's continue the discussion of NSRL here. Feel free to cross quote from here, I'm going to leave the above posts in this thread since NSRL and electrification are not mutually irrelevant concepts. Overlapping discussion is welcome here but strictly NSRL posts should go in that thread.

ElectricTraction wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:39 pm NRSL solves North Station not being near where most people want to go, and create a lot of new station pairs, as well as one-seat rides, which would get more people to ride it.

Really? Have you ever been to Boston? Lets figure out whats near North Station within walking distance The Garden, Federal Office Buildings, Commonwealth Office Buildings, MGH, Converse, The North End, multiple hotels and food options, Brand new Buildings all over the place with new apartments and businesses and then you have parks and the Museum of Science. You also have a major transit hub between the Commuter Rail, Downeaster, Orange Line, Green Line, buses and commuter boat. There are many places where people want to go.

You may think otherwise since the North Shore and Merrimack Valley population is lower than the South Shore and Metro West.

Mod Note: Check out the Battery Electric Multiple Units BEMU thread here.

Is train length really a limiting factor for anything at the moment?

danib62 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:31 pmIs train length really a limiting factor for anything at the moment?

Probably not, although they're going in the wrong direction with the double deckers. Double deckers only make sense with high level platforms if no other options are available, i.e. they're out of train length.

Article from NBC Boston about electrification from January 6th.

If you take the commuter rail, you know one delay can cause a ripple effect. Now, there’s a new push to speed up the trains and make them more reliable by going electric.

"Having more options, having more trains more often would be great," said commuter Alex Mulcahy.

Jarred Johnson with the advocacy group TransitMatters said he wants to see the commuter rail move away from diesel and covert the trains to electric power.

"Faster trains, far more reliable trains and that’s the biggest part," said Johnson. "We’re standing here in Roxbury. We’re standing here in an environmental justice community where they have higher asthma rates and you see that same thing across the system."


TransitMatters issued a lengthy report this fall. It says the MBTA could electrify the entire commuter rail network for between $800 million and $1.5 billion.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/th ... l/2606901/

IMO the rehabbing of the diesel fleet has good long-term ramifications for electrifications. You start by electrifying CAT for the route parallel to the NEC. That way electric motors at first can haul regular passenger equipment allowing the diesels to expand service on other routes. As CAT is added to other routes especially the south coast the need for new diesels will not be needed. The rebuilds can continue operating thereby justifying the capital spent on the diesel rebuilding.

Probably additional diesels or dual modes will eventually be needed for low passenger count routes. Also do not expect any CAT for the north station routes.

MNCRR9000 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:27 pm Article from NBC Boston about electrification from January 6th.

.....TransitMatters issued a lengthy report this fall. It says the MBTA could electrify the entire commuter rail network for between $800 million and $1.5 billion.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/th ... l/2606901/

What's $1,500,000,000.00 between friends? And we all know that such a project will have cost overruns.

how is the F40 rebuild program going? lets keep feeding money into programs that do not work.

BandA has great posts

Also, back when the wires first went up, when Amtrak still operated the commuter rail....a test train was operated with an AEM-7 and 8 amfleets to pull from a dead stop out of Sharon station....couldn't pull out of the hill. Same situation going to be much harder pulling a mixed set of K and R cars out of there

Also, back when the wires first went up, when Amtrak still operated the commuter rail....a test train was operated with an AEM-7 and 8 amfleets to pull from a dead stop out of Sharon station....couldn't pull out of the hill.

I wonder if part of that is the dead section between Sharon and Canton. They should have put that substation elsewhere.

Electrics don't care about load. If they need more pull they take it from the wire until a substation breaker pops. That could also have been the issue, the wheels will spin before they get bogged down.

The DC AEM-7s have a limit of 6-8 Amfleets in service due to AEM-7's light weight limiting it's tractive effort. This was noted when they were first put into service. Wheel slip may have been the issue coming up that hill.

Traction certainly wouldn't be an issue with an electric locomotive explicitly designed for commuter service. Let's give the industry a little more credit than that.

And yes, electrification would be expensive; nobody's denying that. But IMO it's clearly a worthwhile investment in the quality of service and the communities that the system serves.

Traction was an issue for the DC AEM-7s. That is why they were doubleheaded on longer trains. It was reported in older Trains. Yes, it was a high HP locomotive, but that was not the issue. The AEM-7 was a European design adapted to the US by EMD and ASEA and was lightweight compared to US locomotives. US passenger cars also have to meet the buff strength requirements, making them heavier than European cars. One reason why the GE E-60 still remained was its high weight allowed it to pull 20 car trains with ease, although with a 90mph limit with its poor high speed tracking. The conversion of some of the AEM-7s to AC traction would allow for a higher tractive effort.

Railway Age says the HSP46 is good for 65,000 lbs starting tractive effort, while Wikipedia reports the AEM7 was good for just under 52,000 lbs, and reports the ALP46 and ALP45DP used by NJ Transit are good for 71,000 lbs starting.

Performance of electric locomotives appropriate for commuter use simply won't be a problem. The AEM7 didn't fall into that category.