City Rail Transit Systems

What kind of City Rail Transit do you see more of Light Rail Or Heavy Rail Rapid Transit systems or Heritage / Vintage Streetcar/Trolleycar Lines being built mostly?


Light Rail Systems can also Tunnels & Elevated Rail Lines ,also Street Trackages.


Heavy Rail Rapid Transit System is seperated Grade Rail Lines with Elevated or Tunnels, at grade.



But where i am from we have MARTA A Heavy Rail 3rd Rail Commuter Rail System that is almost like Long island

Commuter Rail System but the Long Island Commuter Rail System has Grade Crossing but MARTA Commuter Rail System
That Totally Seperate grade Rail system but however there is grade crossings at each 3 Train Yards /Railcar shops.


But Heavy Rail Rapid transit Systems is Much like a regular train but except a 3rd rail .


But The Streetcar/Trolleycars , Interurban Trolleycars / Trains are a cousin to those Heavy Rail Rapid Transit Trains


Before the Streetcar/ Trolleycars it was Steam Commuter Trains but had to retire those trains and use Streetcar/Trolleycars.



The Marta Railcars are in 2 Car Train Sets.


But it seems like More Light Rail systems are being built more the Heavy Rail Rapid Transit Systems but why ?

I'm not to sure MARTA can be compared to the LIRR. MARTA reminds me more of Washington DC if anything.

Trolleycar wrote: The Marta Railcars are in 2 Car Train Sets.

Do you mean that they make up trains with married pairs of permanently coupled cars, consequently trains are even numbers of cars, or do you mean the trains are 2 cars long? It's been a long time since I rode Atlanta, but at that time I remember trains as long as 6 cars. Whether the components were married pairs or single units I couldn't say.

MARTA has 318 cars in married pairs. Originally there were 20 single units available as part of the late '70s Franco-Belge delivery. These 20 cars are in storage as part of the reserve fleet currently in Avondale Yard.

In order to really understand what we are talking about here, we must define our terms. The terms Light and Heavy Rail are terms which are usually applied to what is known in today's terms as "urban rapid transit". According to several FRA generated reports, rail systems are divided into two main categories, urban rapid transit and "standard"railroads. Urban Rapid Transit ( which what we are really discussing here) are comprised of "heavy rail"systems-- ie subways and subway elevated systems, generally operating on completely grade separated ROWs, and using the train type equipment commonly known as "subway cars". Light Rail Lines are the second "sub category" of urban rapid transit, and comprise rail lines which would formerly have been called streetcar ( or street railways) systems and the streetcar derived interurban systems. Heavy Rail systems in urban rapid transit are of heavier construction, and use heavier equipment than Light Rail systems, hence the term "Heavy Rail". However neither the construction of the ROW or the equipment used in urban rapid transit systems are anywhere near as "heavy" as that of the standard railroad. Standard Railroads include the Class I freight railroads and railroad commuter operations such as MARC, LIRR, and SEPTA's Regional Rail Division. Standard Railroads, including commuter railroads, are subject to regulation by the FRA, urban rapid transit systems are not, except where they use the same ROW as a standard railroad. In these instances the urban rapid transit operations cannot take place at the same time as the standard railroad operations, primarily because of the much greater size and weight of standard railroad cars--- the two types of equipment must be kept separated to avoid the injuries and probable fatalities that would be suffered by those on board the urban rapid transit equipment in the event of a collision with a train made up of standard sized railroad equipment.

Within the urban rapid transit category, though there are the heavy and light rail distinctions, there are operations which have elements of both, but generally, the two types are not mixed--- ie light rail equipment will not operate over heavy rail ROW's, though, as is the case with SEPTA's Subway Surface Lines and some of the Boston Light Rail Lines, the two types might share the same tunnel;---- but on different tracks. And in today's world we may see light rail cars operated in trains which are as long as heavy rail (subway) trains. It is rare, however, to see single car operation on heavy rail systems, though I believe the Philadelphia- New Jersey PATCO system may occasionally do this.

A heritage line is simply, in today's terms, a light rail line which uses "historic", museum quality ("heritage") streetcar or interurban equipment as its rolling stock.

walt wrote:though there are the heavy and light rail distinctions, there are operations which have elements of both, but generally, the two types are not mixed--- ie light rail equipment will not operate over heavy rail ROW's,

In rail classifications, there are seemingly exceptions to every rule, and here the exception (in the USA) is Cleveland. The heavy-rail Red Line shares tracks with the light-rail Green and Blue Lines between Tower City and E. 55th St.

walt wrote: And in today's world we may see light rail cars operated in trains which are as long as heavy rail (subway) trains. It is rare, however, to see single car operation on heavy rail systems, though I believe the Philadelphia- New Jersey PATCO system may occasionally do this.

PATCO's original 1969 equipment was 25 single cars and 50 cars in 2 car married pairs, the subsequent 1980 equipment expansion was all married pairs. My guess, and my recollection of after midnight and Sunday rides within the last 4 years is that the single cars old age makes their shortest train 2 cars nowadays.
Sometime around 1980, maybe before PATCO got their new (now 29 year old) equipment I remember riding from Haddonfield back to Philly with a visitor from England about 11pm. We had a 1 car train and my tourist buddy commented that in England they never operated trains that short, if the rail line didn't support enough passengers for more than 1 car they'd use buses.

Moving across town, SEPTA's route 100 is 3rd rail grade separated with high level platforms, all characteristics of what I've thought as traditional heavy rail systems. But except for weekday rush hours I don't think they've ever scheduled 2 car trains since the line opened in 1907, and most station platforms can accomodate only 2 cars, so I doubt they've ever sheduled trains longer than 2 cars.

Another interesting thing is the phenomenon of systems that used to run PCC's, single body double truck, that now run articulated triple truck cars. For example Pittsburgh, PCC's never ran in trains in regular service, Boston and Cleveland PCC's often ran in multi car trains http://www.davesrailpix.com/shrt/htm/shrt064.htm http://www.davesrailpix.com/shrt/htm/shrt073.htm http://www.davesrailpix.com/shrt/htm/shrt015.htm http://www.davesrailpix.com/shrt/htm/shrt017.htm http://www.davesrailpix.com/shrt/htm/shrt081.htm
So nowadays these systems have the capability to run trains composed of longer cars, but their single car trains are about the same length as their predecessor 2 car trains.

walt wrote:It is rare, however, to see single car operation on heavy rail systems, though I believe the Philadelphia- New Jersey PATCO system may occasionally do this.

Cleveland's Red Line did it during off-peak hours with their now-retired "Airporter" cars:

http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/i ... er1971.jpg

I don't know if they do it with the current Tokyu cars. Maybe those are permanently coupled in pairs. All the pictures I have show pairs.

gardendance wrote:

walt wrote: And in today's world we may see light rail cars operated in trains which are as long as heavy rail (subway) trains. It is rare, however, to see single car operation on heavy rail systems, though I believe the Philadelphia- New Jersey PATCO system may occasionally do this.

Moving across town, SEPTA's route 100 is 3rd rail grade separated with high level platforms, all characteristics of what I've thought as traditional heavy rail systems. But except for weekday rush hours I don't think they've ever scheduled 2 car trains since the line opened in 1907, and most station platforms can accomodate only 2 cars, so I doubt they've ever sheduled trains longer than 2 cars.

Septa's Route 100, the former Philadelphia & Westen Railroad defies categorization. It was originally intended to be the eastern end of a transcontinental railroad which would compete with the PRR. It, however, never got any further west than Strafford ( 10 miles from 69th Street), and the railroad between Villanova Junction and Strafford was abandoned in 1956. The present Norristown route was opened in 1912, to connect with a "true" interurban, the Lehigh Valley Transit Co.'s (LVT) Liberty Bell Route to Allentown. Between 1912 and 1949, LVT interurban cars, including freight cars, operated over the P&W between Norristown and 69th Street on their way to and from Allentown. During P&W days, two car trains of Brill Bullet cars were run fairly frequently during peak periods. Additionally, in 1964, the Red Arrow Lines, which by then had taken over the railroad, purchased the two former North Shore Line "Electroliners"---four car articulated interurban trains which had originally run over the North Shore Line ( CNS &M) between Chicago & Milwaukee---refurbished them, re-named them "Liberty Liners" and ran them during peak periods until sometime in the late 1970's. But, generally, the P&W operated single unit trains. IMO, the P&W was a high speed "super interurban" with some aspects of rapid transit. Under SEPTA, the rapid transit aspects of the line became more pronounced, especially during the period between the withdrawal of the Bullet and Strafford cars from service, and the advent of the present Adtranz equipment, when some of the old Chicago PCC rapid transit cars were used. Additionally, the speeds used have been reduced ( the Bullet Cars could reach 90 MPH, and were frequently run at 70 plus MPH) making the line more rapid transit these days than the high speed interurban it was between 1930 and 1990.

Why Is Light Rail Systems being built more heavy rail rapid transit systems now?


Heritage & vintage Streetcar Lines ,Modern Light Rail Lines.

With heritage &vintage Streetcar/Trolley Lines are being built their are 35 of These Streetcar Lines right now.


But Modern Light Rail systems are Built also too.



But Less Heavy Rail Rapid Transit systems are being less built ?


Is it because of Infastructure with the Tunnels exspecially.


But there are cool & good to ride the trains.


for MARTA In atlanta the Rail system is rapid transit system for Rail Operators must be 23 years of age with experence being a Bus Driver first. Is it like that in other city rail transit systems?



But why Streetcar you need to be a Bus driver first?

Like the Heavy Rail Rapid Transit Systems?



I know that the savannah River Street Streetcar there is no experence require being a bus Driver Like for the Atlanta MARTA Trains.



MARTA Heavy Rail Rapid Transit System which you would need to drive a Bus first than be a Rail Operator.





But Is a Bus Driver also experenced to Operate Light Rail Trains too?

>>> more like heavy rail
You cannot have efficient mass transit in a lane shared with mixed traffic.

After that, you choose light rail versus rapid transit technology depending on community demands (including stop spacing), expected passenger load, available funds, and other infrastructure limitations such as traffic grade crossings.

One does not need bus driving experience to drive a train or vice versa but some transit systems have rules that probably evolved from seniority and working your way up from the ranks. Rumor has it that at one time on the MBTA (back in the Boston Elevated Ry. days?), motormen had to start as station cleaners and get promoted.

Cleveland has a section of track (east of Tower City) shared by light rail and rapid transit.

Trolleycar wrote:Why Is Light Rail Systems being built more heavy rail rapid transit systems now?

I suspect that the biggest consideration is cost. Light Rail Lines, generally cost less to construct than heavy rail rapid transit lines. You can use street running in heavily built up areas with light rail construction, rather than having to tunnel under, or use an arial structure ( ie. an elevated) those kinds of areas as you would have to do with a heavy rail system. Also, if you don't need the close headways and greater capacity typical of heavy rail systems, light rail works just fine.