Cartier Alco/MLW renumbering confusion.

Can anyone straighten out this mess?!

There are at least 5 internet forums which are discussing these units.
I just went back through them all looking for the latest updates, and nothing seems to be firmed up.

We know for a fact that one unit has been renumbured..we have photographic proof:
NYSW 6366, the former SIXX 45.
that one is fine.

then we have multiple reports of a 3670 and a 6370.
Is this 2 different units? or is someone dyslexic?
the numbering is supposed to be in the 6000-series, so 6370 makes more sense than 3670, but I have seen multiple reports of a 3670.
So is it 3670 or 6370?
or could this actualy be 2 different units?
and anyone know which one it is??
any pictures yet?

I have also seen mysterious references to a "Thing" #81 spotted around Binghamton.
there never was an 81.
at least not from the original eight Cartier numbers.
they are:
41
43
45
47
75
77
78
85

where did 81 come from?!

thanks!
Scot

scottychaos wrote:Can anyone straighten out this mess?!

There are at least 5 internet forums which are discussing these units.
I just went back through them all looking for the latest updates, and nothing seems to be firmed up.

We know for a fact that one unit has been renumbured..we have photographic proof:
NYSW 6366, the former SIXX 45.
that one is fine.

then we have multiple reports of a 3670 and a 6370.
Is this 2 different units? or is someone dyslexic?
the numbering is supposed to be in the 6000-series, so 6370 makes more sense than 3670, but I have seen multiple reports of a 3670.
So is it 3670 or 6370?
or could this actualy be 2 different units?
and anyone know which one it is??
any pictures yet?

I have also seen mysterious references to a "Thing" #81 spotted around Binghamton.
there never was an 81.
at least not from the original eight Cartier numbers.
they are:
41
43
45
47
75
77
78
85

where did 81 come from?!

thanks!
Scot

Well I got a photo of NYSW 3670. Hope this helps.....

NYSW 3670 is about to pick up its train, the SU-99 on the "MC" tracks in Bogota, NJ 7/27/2005.
http://n01jd1.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... ?id=163146

I thought NYS&W numbering convention was to use a number range that represented the locomotive's horsepower. So SD-45's are in the 3600 series, GP-20s are in the 2000 series, SD-70s are in the 4000 series, the TP&W F7 was #1500, etc. And even numbered locomotives can be MU'ed.
So a C636 should be in the 3600 series.

Of course this doesn't explain the 142....

This is sort of like how EL numbered its 2nd generation diesels: U33Cs were 3300's, SD45s were 3600s, GP35s and U25Bs were 2500s, C424s and C425s were 2400 series (I guess C425s couldn't be squeezed into the 2500 series).

The 142 was a replacement for a steamer that sunk during shipping from China that was to be 141. Perhaps they did it to be close to their intended number for the original.

n01jd1 wrote: Well I got a photo of NYSW 3670. Hope this helps.....

NYSW 3670 is about to pick up its train, the SU-99 on the "MC" tracks in Bogota, NJ 7/27/2005.
http://n01jd1.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... ?id=163146

Hey!
we really do have a 3670!
cool..thanks John!
cleared that one up..
What was 3670's number before?

well now there are two different numbering sequences for the "things"
6300's and 3600's..weird.

the following was posted in another thread on this forum:

rcbsd45 wrote:New numbering coming to the Alco's on the NYSW. This is from a reliable source and was posted elsewhere...

78= NYSW 6360
77="""""""" 6362
47="""""""" 6368
45=""""""""6366
41=""""""""6364
Bdlx 1355 = NYSW 1355

For those with memories, the 6366 was last used in the mid 80's
on a former BN SD45, nee 6489. It was slated to become the NYSW 3616
but never did, and in fact stayed in BN colors all the way through
until its sale to the Montana Rail Link several years ago. As for the
other numbers in this series, the NYSW 6360 was originally BN 6475;
6362 was originally BN 6480; NYSW 6364 was BN 6486. There never was a 6368 back then

Scot
Scot

ok, by the process of elimination 3670 has to be either 43 or 77.
because we have a photo with 3670, 41, 47 and 78 all running together.
we can eliminate three of the six right there. (41,47,78)
we know 45 is now 6366, that elimates four.(41,47,78,45)
that only leaves 43 or 77, so 3670 has to be one of those two.
43 is a M636.
77 is one of the two C636's.
77 hasnt been reported operating yet.
43 has.
the C636's have different trucks than the M636's.
and they have different long hood details..grills, roof outline, intakes and such.
So, based on these three photos:

http://www.railfan.net/railpix/submit/s ... tier77.jpg
http://www.railfan.net/railpix/submit/s ... tier43.jpg
http://n01jd1.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... ?id=163146

I have deduced that 3670 must be 43!
anyone see any holes in my theory?
I think its pretty bulletproof..
all the details match between 3670 and 43.
77 is very different.
Scot

(hey! she got a new plow!)

Maybe the 636X numbers are for the Alco designation of 636... who knows... my head hurts from reading this.... what a hobby..........

might they be inverting the 3 and the 6 for CAnadian built units for some odd reason? i'm sure i saw a 6370...

Well, none of us were ENTIRELY right. going over, 6366 is now 3666. so those who saw 6370 were right, as that was before it was renumbered to 3670. Same with 6366.

cool..thanks Andy!

wow! Susquehanna sure is keeping us all on our toes!
ok then..
latest and greatest theory:

2 of the units were briefly renumbured in the 6300 series.
and are now in the 3600 series.

Cartier 45 was renumbured first to 6366, photographic proof of renumbured 6366 taken on June 4, 2005.
On July 30, the unit was spotted renumbured a second time, this time to 3666.
So this unit went from Cartier 45 to NYSW 6366 to NYSW 3666. hopefully settled down now.

Cartier 43 was very briefly numbured 6370..perhaps only a few weeks in July 2005. by late July she was renumbured to 3670.
this unit went from Cartier 43 to NYSW 6370 to NYSW 3670.

Current numbering status as of August 1, 2005:

41 - still #41, operating with NYSW
3670 - was briefly numbured 6370, perhaps only a few weeks in July, was Cartier 43 operating with NYSW
3666 - was numbured 6366 for approx 2 months, June and July 2005,was Cartier 45, operating with NYSW
47 - still #47, operating with NYSW
75 - still in Cohocton, not operating.
77 - with NYSW, but has not operated yet.
78 - still #78, operating with NYSW.
85 - still in Cohocton, not operating.

five of the eight are operating!
three still await a return to service.

Scot

Are 75 and 85 going to the WNY&P?

NEWS FLASH!

2 MORE NYSW ALCO'S COMING INTO BINGHAMTON THIS MORNING FROM COHOCTON!

NUMBERS 3672 AND 3674!

EX 75 AND 85?


I'll try and get out later on to try and get pics.

woo hoo!

yes, its definately 75 and 85.
I read somewhere a week or so ago that the 2 units were seen IN Cohocton with the new NYSW numbers applied.
so the new numbers were applied there.

But were they renumbured consecutively?
probably..but anyone know for certain?
we will probably be able to tell from pictures..

thanks Andy!
Scot

they'll probably be in the enginehouse area, so id depends on how many trains NS has stacked up on tracks 1,2 and the 2 Johnson tracks.

all EIGHT Cartier engines are now with the Susquehanna!
75 and 85 left Cohocton a few days ago, they arrived in Binghamton on Wednesday, 8-17.
Andy snagged the first pics:







so..which is which?
I have some good photos of 75 and 85 in cohocton, but they are mostly of the *other* side from Andy's pics!
but I think found enough photo evidence to prove that they were numbured consecutively,
75 is 3672
85 is 3674

here is my analysis:

the rust stains on the white sriping near the cab matches on 75 and 3672.

the air filters behind the cab:
75 has a pattern of 4 horizontal and 3 vertical.
85 has a pattern of 3 horizontal and 4 vertical.
those details can be seen on 3672 and 3674.

75 has a sinclair antenna dead center on the cab roof.
so does 3672.

85 has a sinclair antenna on the side of the cab roof.
so does 3674.

it looks like 75 has a black cab roof and black nose top.
while 85 is all orange.
cant quite make the nose in the photos I have so far..

once we get clear photos of the LEFT side of 3672 and 3674, I have other photos of 75 and 85 that should clinch it!
but for now im 99% confidant which is which..

Scot