Cape Flyer

M&Eman wrote: The onus is on New Hampshire to provide services to their residents, not Massachusetts, even though its looking like they are going to get a free ride on Plaistow. NH has gotten free rides from MA and Maine for long enough. Lobby your own lawmakers in NH for rail service to Nashua and Manchester.

Believe me, I have been. Most of the lawmakers have already been convinced. It was ONE member of the Executive Council who stopped progress on extending trains to the 'Capitol Corridor'

What I dont understand is that with all this super duper economic urban regional transportational ect planning that goes on, the Plymouth line gets built and suspended on weekends. The station is desecrated by being buried behind an abandoned walmart. It abuts the ocean and the old Cordage Park, a beautiful brick factory complex underutilized today by sporadic businesses. There is old trackage still in the ground that could extend the service to the waterfront tourist section by two Irish guys with shovels, and there is vacant land trackside so it would not be a forced wedge in deal. If there was ever a case of wasted potential, this is it. Is it because this area is old and quaint and working class historic, and it doesnt tickle the ivories of the hipster icrowd,I ask ,why? Between developing Cordage Park and the added dessert of the waterfront tourism, how does this potential go undetected ? As Calogero lamented in A Bronx Tale,'' The saddest thing in life is wasted talent,''
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... pP39q31N3o )

80 trains memorial day to labor day, $5mil in capital is $63k per train, $119k per mile for a 'service' that will take 2 hours from middleboro to hyannis? what of personnel costs 'laying over' in hyannis. the bar car should be open from south station so the passengers can anesthisize their decison. perhaps clearer heads at mbta will quitely let this vanish. ken patrick

KEN PATRICK wrote:80 trains memorial day to labor day, $5mil in capital is $63k per train, $119k per mile for a 'service' that will take 2 hours from middleboro to hyannis? what of personnel costs 'laying over' in hyannis. the bar car should be open from south station so the passengers can anesthisize their decison. perhaps clearer heads at mbta will quitely let this vanish. ken patrick

Your numbers are silly. Even if we take them at face value, who in the world would amortize a major capital expenditure over a period of just one year? No one, that's who.

artman wrote:

KEN PATRICK wrote:80 trains memorial day to labor day, $5mil in capital is $63k per train, $119k per mile for a 'service' that will take 2 hours from middleboro to hyannis? what of personnel costs 'laying over' in hyannis. the bar car should be open from south station so the passengers can anesthisize their decison. perhaps clearer heads at mbta will quitely let this vanish. ken patrick

Your numbers are silly. Even if we take them at face value, who in the world would amortize a major capital expenditure over a period of just one year? No one, that's who.

Don't feed the trolls. This one's been a repeat offender at threadbombing the Cape Rail/MassCoastal threads on NE Railfan to oblivion with this type of numbers-salad ranting. It brings nothing productive to the table.

I can't help but to add that the infrastructure won't be demolished upon the conclusion of the operating season, making the math of total cost (whatever it is) divided by number of trains this year equivalent to the cost per trip nonsense. Add to that, that it's not comparable to highway trip costs because 1 highway trip = 1-3* on average passengers where 1 rail trip = up to 1500* passengers. Rail is more efficient, which is why it's considered "green". It's more enjoyable than road traffic, especially with the on-board amenities, and in due time, I'm sure it will be a faster alternative to the roadway infrastructure which, in my opinion, should take the back seat to any rail improvement project because of such efficiency.

A roadway is bogged down and therefore less efficient with heavy utilization. A train becomes more efficient with more utilization, as the resources and performance are not impacted. If the demand exists, it makes sense to build it.

*I'll actually admit that my numbers are educated guesses and not based on actual data. I'm sure the data is readily available somewhere, but since the statements which I contest do not provide actual data from any given source, I won't waste my time looking for real data to contest them.

What capital costs are there for this service? I thought they were just using infrastructure left behind by the Cape Codder.

mbta et al . i read the 54 page report. the capital number is stated as well as a strange 'from other sources' $1 mil. there is no 'amortization' if the service ends after 2013. reporting notwithstanding, the cash need is immediate so the $5mil must come from debt instruments. and what of the operating costs since the projections are that this will operate at a loss?. as you know, we have the highest debt per person in the nation. i'm not sure how the rta is funded. i do know the dot day-to-day expenses are being bonded. many of the positions stated in the posts are just not realistic. there are no economic benefits arising from taxpayer-subsidized passenger rail. expanding it in the face of reality is simply silly. i'm not a 'troll' or 'thread-bomber'. just a rail savant advocating an enlightened position on fiscal responsibility. ken patrick

This is a RAILFAN forum. We are here to discuss trains, not politics or financials. ANYMORE discussion on cost of this program will BE DELETED!

One argument I read in the Cape Cod Times against full-blown commuter rail was the proximity of houses near the rail line, mentioned by Tom Cahir.

What Mr. Cahir should have mentioned, IMHO, is the fact that the rail line was in place and active for over 150 years before these potential opponents to rail CHOSE to buy/rent a house near the RR.

Catering to these "NIMBY'S" would, IMHO, set a dangerous precedent by stopping rail growth on the say-so of these elitists. When one buys or rents a home near an active RR line, one does so with eyes open.

It's understandible if the rail line came after the houses and if the Cape's former rail lines were ever reclaimed for rail use, (which I think they should) then one would have to work with the abutters in such a case.

atlantis wrote:One argument I read in the Cape Cod Times against full-blown commuter rail was the proximity of houses near the rail line, mentioned by Tom Cahir.

I think the locals have been spoiled by the cute tourist train going slowly by. But honestly if they take slowly raise the speed over time approach, they will never notice!

Faster trains means the noise goes by quicker

The grade crossings might be a potential issue, though. Middleboro to Wareham is 11 plus a private, and only two of those are heavily used roads. But after the bridge there's a bunch of bike crossings and private crossings and industrial crossings and roads with four houses on them.

There is also a quote that commuter rail servie from Hyannis-Boston will never happen.
I wonder if cape officals have to say that to appease rail opponents down there.
If the servcie does well then I imagine that local residents will lobby for a commuter service that will benefit
them as well as tourists. At that point, with a lot of local support, the rail and grade crossings can be upgraded for faster travel times and better safety.
And I wonder if state officals asked them to say it will never happen to keep the South Coast Rail folks from getting angry.

The EGE wrote:Faster trains means the noise goes by quicker

The grade crossings might be a potential issue, though. Middleboro to Wareham is 11 plus a private, and only two of those are heavily used roads. But after the bridge there's a bunch of bike crossings and private crossings and industrial crossings and roads with four houses on them.

Yeah, but almost all of them are fully gated. There's not a lot of upgrading that needs to be done to the crossings, because those quietly has gotten a lot of work over the last couple years. People with property on private crossings may complain simply out of getting a reminder that they're limited-liability crossings and the property owners...uh...have to actually look out for the train because there's no money to be had in suing the state. But there's not anything they can actually do about that...limited-liability is what it is.


Lay some new welded rail and they aren't even going to hear the clickety-clack, let alone hear it for a shorter time than they used to. Folks along the Downeaster who used to have their houses rumble for 10 minutes every time a Guilford freight creaked by and heard the horn for miles around every unprotected crossing now don't even hear the RR in their own backyards the trains glide by so quickly and smoothly. They don't even know on the Cape how quickly they'll get over it.

I was thinking the same thing, Choo Choo. I found it odd that such a statement was made with such emphasis. Sounds like a tactic to disarm commuter rail opponents for now so the weekend service can at least get off the ground. Maybe the official had his fingers crossed while making the statement.