Discussion related to commuter rail and transit operators in California past and present including Los Angeles Metrolink and Metro Subway and Light Rail, San Diego Coaster, Sprinter and MTS Trolley, Altamont Commuter Express (Stockton), Caltrain and MUNI (San Francisco), Sacramento RTD Light Rail, and others...

Moderator: lensovet

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  by lensovet
 
The 9-11 billion, from the slides alone, seems to cover future, unplanned, grade separation projects.

Given the number of grade crossings listed above (50?), $10 billion seems quite reasonable.
  by lpetrich
 
Looking at the upcoming projects, the San-Mateo 25th-Ave. project is expected to cost $205.9 M. It actually has 3 grade separations, at 25th, 28th, and 31th Aves. That makes $69.0 per separation.

The Burlingame-Broadway one is expected to cost $326.69 M for 1 separation. However, it also involves elevating the entire Broadway station.

The Menlo-Park-Ravenswood one is expected to cost $310 -$380 M for 3 separations. That's $100 - $130 M for each one.

I will now count the remaining ones.
  • SF: 2?
  • South SF: (planning) 2
  • Millbrae: 2
  • Burlingame: 7
  • San Mateo: 6
  • Redwood City: (planning) 7
  • Atherton: 3
  • Palo Alto: 4
  • Mountain View: 2
  • Sunnyvale: 2
  • San Jose: 2
Of these, 9 are in planning, all in San Mateo County. I'll have to research the other two counties.
  • San Francisco Count: 2
  • San Mateo County: 27
  • Santa Clara County: 10
Grand total: 39
  by lpetrich
 
I went to caltrain.com to find out more.

25th Avenue Grade Separation

The project cost is $205.9 M for 3 grade crossings and the rebuilding of Hillsdale Station. Hillsdale Station Opening - it reopened April 26, and it is now elevated with a center platform, and 4 blocks south of its previous location.

25th Ave. Grade Sep Project Update: Tour the New Station, Progress on 31st and 25th Avenues - May 2021

Construction of the 25th and 31th Aves. undepasses is now underway, and they should be complete by late summer. 28th Ave. has apparently reopened with its underpass.
  by lpetrich
 
Burlingame Broadway Grade Separation Project is in its final design phase. From the looks of it, it will include elevation and relocation of nearby Broadway station to above Broadway.

Rengstorff Avenue Grade Separation Project - in Mountain View, Santa Clara County. It is now in final design.

There are also some proposals to rebuild bridges. Also proposals to improve grade crossings.
  • San Mateo: 1st, 2nd, 3rd Aves.
  • Menlo Park: Glenwood, Oak Grove Aves.
  by lpetrich
 
The site lists some previous bridge-replacement projects: More grade-crossing improvements: Corrections to my grade-crossing list:
  • Peninsula Ave. -- at Burlingame / San Mateo boundary
  • Villa Terrace Ave., Bellevue Ave. - in San Mateo
  • Encinal Ave. - in Menlo Park
But I got all of those in the lists at caltrain.com
  by west point
 
Certainly sounds like another project as the New Haven draw bridge replacements Maybe all grade separations by 2050?
  by west point
 
UP tracks to Gilroy ? UP does not want any precedence of wires on any of their tracks.
  by ExCon90
 
They already live with overhead wires between Santa Clara and Tamien -- but maybe the number of Caltrain trips between there and Gilroy wouldn't justify the expense.
  by electricron
 
ExCon90 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:35 pm They already live with overhead wires between Santa Clara and Tamien -- but maybe the number of Caltrain trips between there and Gilroy wouldn't justify the expense.
The EIS underway through Gilroy, not sure if it is at the Draft or Final versions yet, is planning placing the HSR tracks or corridor adjacent to the existing freight tracks. There is no real reason to electrify both the freight and HSR tracks within adjacent corridors. Eventually, Caltrain could switch over to the HSR corridor and use its catenaries between SJ and Gilroy.
Just as CHSR is planning on using Caltrain tracks, Caltrain is probably planning on using CHSR tracks. You know, I'll rub your back if you will rub mine later type of deal.
  by lensovet
 
the ridership and frequency (or lack thereof) south of SJ makes it nonsensical to run wire all the way to Gilroy. they don't even have weekend service.
  by David Benton
 
Electrification would speed the service up , which would attract more passengers , and allow for more service.
  by electricron
 
David Benton wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:44 pm Electrification would speed the service up , which would attract more passengers , and allow for more service.
Which will be done on another passenger only pair of tracks less than a few hundred yards away eventually.
CHSR will be electrifying its own passenger only tracks through the San Joaquin Valley, but not the UP and BNSF tracks in the Valley./ Why should Gilroy to San Jose UP tracks be any different?
  by David Benton
 
I didn't realize we were talking about the UP tracks.
It was my understanding that the HSR / Caltrain tracks would be seperate as well .
  by electricron
 
David Benton wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:03 am I didn't realize we were talking about the UP tracks.
It was my understanding that the HSR / Caltrain tracks would be seperate as well .
They are not electrifying the line between San Jose and Gilroy because CHSR is not building the new 220 mph HSR tracks there yet. The max speed on the UP tracks to Gilroy is probably 79 mph. Why would you want to electrify them?
Between San Jose and San Francisco, Caltrain is electrifying the existing corridor and improving the tracks for 110 mph max speeds - I believe. CHSR will not be building a new corridor within a few hundred yards away from the existing tracks - mainly because the local mostly residential communities did not want really high train speeds, considering not every road crossing will be grade separated.

Who actually owns the rail corridors, Caltrain or UP/BNSF, really makes a difference on what can be done.
  by lpetrich
 
Background on Caltrain Corridor Grade Crossings & Seaprations.pdf - 2021 Feb 24 - PDF of presentation "Background on Caltrain Corridor Grade Crossings and Separations"

San Francisco: 2, SSF: 1, San Bruno: 1, Millbrae: 1, Burlingame: 5, San Mateo: 9, Redwood City: 6, Atherton: 2, Menlo Park: 4, Palo Alto: 4, Mountain View: 2, Sunnyvale: 2, San Jose: 2

SF Cty: 2, SM Cty: 29, SC Cty: 10

Grand Total: 41

"In 2018 Caltrain’s crossing gates were down for an average of about 11 minutes during the peak weekday commute hour. Gate down times range from 6 minutes up to nearly 17 minutes." - so the trains' crossings obstruct the streets for about 1/5 of the time.
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