• C&NW 0-10-2's?

  • Discussion relating to The Chicago & North Western, the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific, the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad (Milwaukee Road), including mergers, acquisitions, and abandonments.
Discussion relating to The Chicago & North Western, the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific, the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad (Milwaukee Road), including mergers, acquisitions, and abandonments.

Moderator: Komachi

  by Aa3rt
Looking through an old (August 1948) issue of Railroad Magazine this evening, an article on the C&NW's roster at that time shows two 0-10-2 switchers. Numbered 491 & 492 they are listed as having been built by Baldwin in 1917.

In all my years as a railway enthusiast, I can't ever recall having seen a photo of these locomotives. In fact, up until tonight, I'd always been under the impression the the Union Railroad's roster of 0-10-2's were the only locomotives of this wheel arrangement to have existed.

I'm guessing that the C&NW locos were 2-10-2's with the pilot truck removed for switching duty. Can any of you C&NW fans fill me in and possibly direct me to a photo of these unique beasts?
  by j4284
Hello Ar3rt: I'm a C&NW buff---and am familiar with 491 and 492. They started life (as you guessed) as 2-10-2s on the C st.P M & O which was a subsidiary of the C&NW. They often worked in hill country east of St Paul, Mn---into Wisconsin. Pushers. Stationed at Hudson, WI for years. Either during or just after WWII they were "sold" and/or traded to the C&NW which sent two Z class 2-8-0s to the CMO. The 2-10-2s were converted to 0-10-2s and used as hump engines at Proviso. The 2-8-0s were frequently used as transfer engines working out of St Paul to Minneapolis and back---in their roll the 2=8=0s ran into 1957 I'm led to believe and were among the last C&NW/CMO steamers running. The 0-10-2s died a lot earlier. Those two big ten wheel driverred engines were an oddity in a way. C&NW had a dozen 2-8-4s and 35 4-8-4s and well over 300 2-8-2s and gobs of 2-8-0s (some of which went to Mexico and earlier to the ACL, M&P etc) but no other large power---unlike the Milwaukee Road that had mallets or CB&Q etc. Hope this is some help. TOM WILSON
  by Aa3rt
Hello Tom, Welcome to Railroad.Net! Many thanks for taking the time to respond to my query, I appreciate your input.

Most of my railway interests focus on western New York and Pennsylvania where I was raised so I'm not real familiar with some of the midwest and western railroads.

I did neglect to mention in my first post that these locos were designated as class J-1. Now if I could only find a photo! (I've already checked the C&NW Historical Society website.) Thanks again!
  by pjb
:-D Hello:
These locos, like similar conversions of Santa Fes to 0-10-2 hump locos on the IC and
elsewhere, had their pilot trucks removed because they tended to derail around hump crests.

None of them had anything in common with the UNION's purpose built transfer engines other
than the wheel arrangement. The latter had much higher BP and superheater capacity, Along with
improvements in cross balancing, firebox appliances, and features like multiple throttles
the UNION' locos were essentially "superpower". They actually charged along at 45 mph on
B&LE trackage on transfer runs without hunting and banging around as was common on
USRA 2-10-2 clones that had problems both with rod hammer, and hunting as speeds increased.

Without going off, on a tangent here since it is not germane to the CNW 0-10-2s , early ATSF
2-10-2s (that were vast in number) were far better designed from a running gear point of
view than most later ones. The Readings Ks, that are the largest 2-10-2s ever built (as
well as among the heaviest nonarticulateds ever to run here), became fine locos due to
reworking the running gear, rods and cylinders that took place in 1940s.

Prior to that they were not really able to run much over thirty MPH without becoming rough
rides that pounded the roadway unmercifully.

In Charles T. Knudsens' CHICAGO NORTH WESTERN STEAM POWER: 1848-1956 Classes A-Z;
1965, self pub, printed Rand-McNally, page 99 -There is photo (491) and diagram of class
'J-1' . In the text he notes :
" In 1944, the parent company,C&NW, exchanged two class JAs , Nos. 2365 and 2371 for two
J-1s." The Omaha renumbered the JAs to 440 and 441 respectively: the C&NW retained the
numbers 491 and 492." They were replaced by DEs in 1949, and 1953 on the Provoso
hump .

Knudsen could of got it wrong, but he worked for CNW, and he is saying the Omaha
got a pair of rebuilt Mikados (J to JA) in return for their 2-10-2s. You can buy pictures
of these locos from Harold Vollrath, or other locomotive print sellers. Just remember
to indicate you want the post 1945 versions of locos # 491 and 492 , as you are likely
to get them as 2-10-2s otherwise.
Good-Luck, PJB
  by Jessica Black
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/santafe/ ... llrath.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To answer this question, here is a photograph of Chicago & North Western 0-10-2 #491. Basically, she looks like a conventional 2-10-2 'Santa Fe' type minus the leading truck.
  by wjstix
IIRC the Union railroad originally looked at 2-10-2s but they didn't fit their existing turntables, so they ordered the engines as 0-10-2s...but they were still pretty much built to the design of a typical 2-10-2 but without pilot wheels.