Burt Line (Beebe Line? Interurban near Canastota?)

What was the Beebe Line? I found it while browsing openstreetmap. It appears that the West Shore once had a siding west of Canastota that crossed Beebe bridge Rd. and ended shortly after, just south of what is now the Erie Canal Towpath and parking lot. Could someone please fill me in on its purpose, if it ever had one.

Thanks- Mike

There was never a line called the BeeBe Line

Charlie

This is almost certainly referring to an interurban line owned by the Beebe Syndicate. More information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_United_Railways

charlie6017 wrote:There was never a line called the BeeBe Line

Charlie

If you look on openstreetmap, there is a siding that extended off the WS across Beebe Bridge Rd. in Canastota, NY labeled The Beebe Line.

I also found this today, so I'm sure that there probably was a beebe line that existed at one time. For what, is what I'd like to know? I'm guessing it was for something that was never finished.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/russnelson/4538162647/

I stand corrected...........I'm sorry about that!

I was not taking into account unfinished lines or interurbans, etc.

My apologies,
Charlie

For what it is worth, look on OpenStreetMap at the area just north of the "Beebe Line". It shows Barlow St running parallel to and between the CSX ROW and the old canal - from North Main St to Beebe Bridge Rd.

However Barlow St in Canastota dead ends about at the village line. The area beyond (between the dead end and Beebe Bridge Rd) is mostly swamp.

Obviously the western end of Barlow St was proposed but never built, same as the elusive "Beebe Line".

...FB

Well, as you can see from the photo, I've been there, explored in the woods, and seen the ROW that's mapped as the Beebe Line. It might not have been called that; it might not even be a railroad. I think our best advice is that going into Canastota, and east from there, the electric railroad ran on West Shore tracks. West from Kimberly Drive, I have no idea where it went. Was not able to see anything on Kimberly road. But it definitely crossed Beebe Bridge Road and continued to the west.

There was a discussion of it earlier: http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=57730

Another possibility is that this is remains of the Burt Line. http://russnelson.com/unfinished-railro ... l#BurtLine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's the NYS Railways. Sheldon King wrote a book on it and there is some mention in the Gordon books on the Rochester Railways and RS&E interurban. The NYS Railways were integrated into the NYC after a while.

Charles

Do you know if the Sheldon King book has maps? Because I don't have this railroad in OpenStreetMap.

Well, my guess is you have most of it. The NYS Railways was a comglomerate made up of the interurbans and city lines in western and central NY. I've posted a crude map and family chart from the book. Most maps in the book are city-focused.

So, for example, if you have already mapped the 3rd rail track along the West Shore near Oneida, you have part of the NYS Railway mapped already. And you probably have the Rochester & Eastern interurban to Geneva. That was part too.

[attachment=1]NYSRChart.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=0]NYSRMap.jpg[/attachment]

The Burt Line railroad was to run across the state. Quoting from an article in the Chittenango NY, Madison County Times, April 14, 1939 issue, "Actual work on this line was started and considerable grading was donoe in the vicinity of Lenox avenue, Oneida. The proposed road bed is still plainly visible north of the West Shore between Lenox Avenue and Sayles Street. At Sayles Street the line swung to the south to touch Kenwood"

very confusing. Between Lenox and Sayles? Those two streets intersect at right angles so the area "in between" doesn't square to me.

Sayles Street ( which runs N-S has a very steep grade going south from Lenox ave to Genesee ST ( NY Rt5) so a line swinging south to touch Kenwood is also problematic. The Shore crossed Sayles at right angles

also before making a gentle turn to the northwest to cross Lenox Ave (on a bridge) swinging yet west again heading to Wampsville. I think we need John Tabi in on this discussion.

NYCUticaSyracuse81 wrote:What was the Beebe Line? I found it while browsing openstreetmap. It appears that the West Shore once had a siding west of Canastota that crossed Beebe bridge Rd. and ended shortly after, just south of what is now the Erie Canal Towpath and parking lot.

I put that there, but I now think I was wrong. It was mere coincidence that it crosses a road named "Beebe Bridge" AND the Beebe Syndicate owned railroads west of Syracuse. I'm now speculating that it was built by the Burt LIne.

Speaking of openstreetmap Russ, what the heck happened to all of the abandoned right-of-ways that were so conveniently labeled on the map. It appears that they've all been removed, only active railroads remain labeled.

Beebee Bridge Rd. was at one time called Quality Hill Rd. According to Taibi's incredible Oneida Railway Company book, the West Shore built an embankment at, or around Quality Hill Rd. which prevented the Burt Line from building any further to the west (The book states that both the West Shore and Burt Line surveyed, and in some places built, side by side with each other westward from Albany). According to the author, the case went to court, neither party was found responsible, and after the death of general Burt, the West Shore continued to build west to Buffalo. I guess the rest is history. I agree that the Beebee Line is indeed probably the Burt Line. Perhaps this area marks the very end of the Burt Line, given that the embankment built by the West Shore which would ultimately hinder any further construction to the west, was located around the general vicinity of what is now BeeBee Bridge Rd.

It's likely that the Burt Line was graded in bits and pieces. That seems to have been the usual way a well-funded railroad was built -- using multiple contractors with multiple crews. So we may find part of the Burt Line south of the West Shore all the way across New York State. Further research (reading old newspapers, contacting historical societies, and asking county map services) and field work needed!