Brightline West (XpressWest, DesertXpress) Las Vegas - Victorville - Rancho Cucamanga - LA Proposal

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:08 pm

lensovet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:16 pm Huh? Even the article says 186, and there's no way it can sustain that on the whole route since it has curves.

Meant to say "whereas this will be going *close* to 200mph the whole route."

Per Wikipedia, average speed of Acela is 70MPH, top speed of 150MPH which it does not do on most of its journey iirc.

Whereas, also Per Wikipedia, Brightline West will do an average of 110MPH with a top speed of 186MPH. Significantly faster.

Acela makes a lot more stops and goes through a ton of curves. The section of the route through NY and CT doesn't even crack 100 mph, so of course its average speed is going to be garbage.

This route will have zero stops, so an average speed of 110 would imply going close to 110 the whole route, not 200. The top speed, similar to Acela, will be reached in only a few straight sections. Take a look at I-15 — it is not a straight road. I'm also unclear on how they are planning to deal with the grades on this route.

Per the Brightline West Wikipedia article, the grades will be 4.5%. I'm not very familiar with how steep that is or if that is the maximum steepness of I-15, but if that's the case, there are locomotives/trainsets that can handle 4%, that probably can be upgraded to handle 4.5%.

I also assume there will probably be a lot of excavation in that I-15 median to mitigate any grading issues.

I-15 may not be a straight road, but it's gotta be less curvy than the NEC

In addition, Brightline's model of running down the median/alongside interstate corridors, like what is being done between Cocoa and Orlando in Florida, and what will be done between Tampa and Orlando, and what will be done with I-15, will be interesting to see how it pans out.

When it comes to talking about public transportation and high-speed rail, or the lack thereof, in the United States, a common talking point is how it is incredibly difficult to get ROWs for new lines, so passenger/high speed rail can avoid freight trains.

If Brightline can successfully pull off the running of trains down/alongside highways, that opens a lot of doors for the future of rail transportation. I'm surprised the federal government never tried to do this with Amtrak, since they already own the interstates and much of the land around it.

Both I-15 and I-4 are owned by the respective states, not the federal government. Brightline's lease agreements are with Caltrans and FlDOT, respectively.

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:36 pm Per the Brightline West Wikipedia article, the grades will be 4.5%. I'm not very familiar with how steep that is or if that is the maximum steepness of I-15, but if that's the case, there are locomotives/trainsets that can handle 4%, that probably can be upgraded to handle 4.5%.

I also assume there will probably be a lot of excavation in that I-15 median to mitigate any grading issues.

I-15 may not be a straight road, but it's gotta be less curvy than the NEC

EMU's with all axles powered can climb steeper grades, i think that's partly why they are used around the rest of the world.

I think 4.5% is a pretty steep grade for steel-on-steel.

With the high inflation environment (>10% recently), what interest rate will Brightline West likely have to pay? The other thread said they are paying 8% in Florida, even with a tax advantage. Of course in CA the taxes are much higher, so tax advantaged bonds are more attractive

I think for Brightline West, it has been hinted in some of the articles I have read that they are A) looking for extensive support from the CA and NV governments, and B) looking for backing from the uber rich. The station in Vegas is supposed to have room for an NBA-sized court, and there are movements right now to give Vegas their own NBA team (they currently have NFL and NHL teams, and soon to be an MLB team, when just 5 years ago Vegas had no major league teams).

So the train station will come with a stadium deal (like MSG or Boston TD Garden)

Per the Wikipedia article for the station, the stadium is supposed to be "adjacent" to the station. Not exactly an MSG-type of situation, but damn close. My mistake in my initial post about it

Once the French knew the horsepower the TGV needed to accelerate to top speed fast enough for good trip times, the whole issue of new lines changed substantially. The steepest grade I find on a TGV line is LGV Sud-Est 1:28 (3.6%). I don't know how this will work out with diesel power, but I'll guess there won't be many miles of 4.5% and the trains will ascend and descent at more than 40 MPH.

jbvb wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 2:09 pm Once the French knew the horsepower the TGV needed to accelerate to top speed fast enough for good trip times, the whole issue of new lines changed substantially. The steepest grade I find on a TGV line is LGV Sud-Est 1:28 (3.6%). I don't know how this will work out with diesel power, but I'll guess there won't be many miles of 4.5% and the trains will ascend and descent at more than 40 MPH.

I thought it was going to start service electric multiple unit,or is it now starting as diesel pulled coaches?

Brightline West has only suggested they will be High Speed electrics; rendering have alternately shown current Siemens or Alstom designs, but I don't think an order has been announced. Given that Alstom makes high speed train sets in either all-cars-powered (AVGs) or only end cars powered configurations (TGVs, Avelia Horizon, and Avelia Liberty), we won't know if its EMUs or Electric pulled coaches until the order is announced.

A much older iteration of this project planned to use diesel hauled locomotives, but this latest iteration of it is supposed to be electric — no modern diesels can achieve a top speed of 186.

Very well-written and thorough article on where Brightline has been, including predecessors, where it is now, and where it is going: https://thenevadaindependent.com/articl ... ppointment

Backers say Las Vegas high-speed rail finally on track after decades of disappointment

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But now, after years of promises, a groundbreaking might happen.

The Nevada congressional delegation is backing an application from Brightline West and the Nevada Department of Transportation (NDOT) for $3.75 billion to build a high-speed rail line from outside of Los Angeles to Las Vegas, hoping the infusion of federal funds can get construction on the long-awaited project underway this year.
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Brightline projects it will raise the requisite capital to begin construction this summer, with an ambitious three-and-a-half-to-four year construction timeline centered on a goal of beginning operations before the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.
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The idea for a bullet train between Southern California and Las Vegas had been kicked around since the 1980s, but it first gained serious traction in the mid-2000s after Amtrak shut down passenger service of its Desert Wind line serving both areas in 1997. Anthony Marnell II, the casino design magnate who founded the Rio, formed DesertXpress Enterprises in 2005, a company set up to explore building the line.
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A company official said Brightline acquired Xpress West because of the existing 2011 environmental record of decision, but knew they needed to expand the line out from Victorville to Los Angeles to make the investment worth it. The company has spent the last three years updating the environmental permitting and expanding it to include a proposed extension to Rancho Cucamonga, a city 37 miles east of Los Angeles with an existing connection to Metrolink, Southern California’s commuter rail system.
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Brightline's proposed map for the line, which runs from Rancho Cucamonga to Las Vegas. (Brightline West/Courtesy):



The final environmental permitting decision, submitted in November 2021 for the section between Victorville and Rancho Cucamonga, is expected this July. Brightine has already been through public comment for the Victorville-Rancho Cucamonga section, and is viewed favorably by the FRA, which said in its environmental assessment report that the proposed line would not have a significant adverse impact on the environment or low-income or minority populations.
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There is a big problem with the Brightline passenger demands. How can it have enough equipment for Sunday's return traffic to LAX that will not be needed except for traffic to LVS on Fridays?