Boston Line CP 24

I have a bunch of questions reguarding the Boston Line in Ashland from the current CP 24 to where the turn is before southboro.

Before CP 24 existed as it does now, there were signals farther down the line probably about where the T station is now.

1.) Was that CP 24 then?

2.) Was it an interlocking?

3.) Who changed it, CR or CSX?

4.) Was there a crossover at the current CP 24 before the signals were installed?

5.) Did the construction of Ashland Station have anything to do with this being moved?

1) No. There wasn't any interlocking in Ashland prior to the establishment
of CP-24. The signals where the station is now were just Automatic
Block Signals.

2) See above

3) CP-24 was built by Conrail, along with other improvements between
Framingham and Worcester.

4) No crossover. However, I believe there was a HBD in service around
the old signals.

5) Yes

Dave

Is the HBD the Dragging Equipment Detector, I know that that has alwayse been there. I use to hear it go off on my dads scanner when we would sit in framingham. (this is obviously way before framingham station was built)

But thanks, I was alwayse confused about that.

Similarly, CP-28 with its two crossovers was constructed around the same time as CP-24 to facilitate commuter rail service. And a wb track 1 to track 2 crossover was added at CP-21. And there's talk about extending a 3rd track west of CP-23 to CP-24 (I'm guessing) for CSX access to Nevins yard to accommodate the addition of more commuter trains to/from Worcester.

I saw an interesting move at Nevins during last Friday's evening commuter rush. CSX had to yard both eb Q436 and Q420 into Nevins/N. Framingham and only 1 track in Nevins was open. So Q436 was routed through Nevins into N. Framingham yard and Q420 came in 10 minutes later to occupy the open Nevins track. And no commuter traffic was impacted as all wb trains were able to be routed from tk 1 to tk 2 at CP-22 and back to tk 2 at CP-24. A little more track will certainly come in handy here.

to add more trains a third track would be more out in the westborough/grafton area. They would have to blast through rock and stuff next to the tracks (that wouldnt cause any delays!!!) and it would cost the T approx 6 Million Dollars. And you know how the T along with the state prolongs things and watches the price go up and up. CP 23 to CP 24 isnt changing, they just rebui.t the crossings in ashland and i dont think theyre going to want to do that again. besides there is no room for a 3rd track in downtown ashland not to mention over and under bridges in ashland.

All in All, the T isnt spending 6 mil for 2 more mid-day trains, so the boston line will remain doubletrack and the commuter rail schedule will not be changing.

Dave as correct as usual. except that the Ashland detector is a Dreagging equipment detector (DED). If the detector is a Hot Box Detector, it would announce axle counts and train speeds.

Ashland station is MP QB 25.2 and the detector is MP QB 25.4. (the detector is just west of the platform and just east of the overhead bridge.)

The signals were probably removed when Con-rail extended Cab signal territory from CP-43 to CP-21. The only signals that you will see west of Natick, Ma. are home signals for the interlockings / CP's. because of the fact that Cab Signals are in effect.

what if you dont have cab signals or they fail? ex, if mbta 1921 were to travel along this line and didnt have cab signals (i dont know if id does or not), what would happen then? I do know ,however, that according to norac, the train should proceed at restricting until the problem can be fixed if the cab signal fails.

I thought the rule was locomotives with no or defective cab signals travel no faster than 30 mph between CPs and the entire distance between CPs is treated as a single block that can be occupied only by said train.

CRail wrote:Is the HBD the Dragging Equipment Detector, I know that that has alwayse been there. I use to hear it go off on my dads scanner when we would sit in framingham. (this is obviously way before framingham station was built)

But thanks, I was alwayse confused about that.

The next detector from Ashland located at mile marker 29 (I believe) is the North Grafton one which also announces the complete axle count and train speed, but not temperature reading. the only HBD that's similar to Ashland are Dalton (mileMarker 146) which just announces "no dragging equipment" no temp, speed, or axle count, and Cannan NY (mile Marker 161 or 162) mentions the total axle count, but no train speed.

the ded in ashland says

"Conrail, Ashland, Massachsetts, Track: (1/2), No Defect, Over."

anyone know what it says if something hits the flap? It happened the other morning but i was asleep, i just heard a traincrew member explaining that there was something sticking off the bottom of a car which set off the detector.

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anyone know what it says if something hits the flap? It happened the other morning but i was asleep, i just heard a traincrew member explaining that there was something sticking off the bottom of a car which set off the detector.[/quote]

An audible tone goes oer over the radio, as opposed to the no defect message, and after the train clears the detector it is supposed to announce the location (axle # and side, either north or south) of the detected defect. The computer can only retain information for 3 defects, so if you get three or more defects reported on the same detector, you have to inspect the entire train (beyond the location of the third defect).

Robert Paniagua wrote:The next detector from Ashland located at mile marker 29 (I believe) is the North Grafton one which also announces the complete axle count and train speed, but not temperature reading. the only HBD that's similar to Ashland are Dalton (mileMarker 146) which just announces "no dragging equipment" no temp, speed, or axle count, and Cannan NY (mile Marker 161 or 162) mentions the total axle count, but no train speed.

Actually the only detectors on the B&A that are dragging equipment ony are: Ashland (MP24.2), & Chatham Village (MP 176.4).

CRail wrote:what if you dont have cab signals or they fail? ex, if mbta 1921 were to travel along this line and didnt have cab signals (i dont know if id does or not), what would happen then? I do know ,however, that according to norac, the train should proceed at restricting until the problem can be fixed if the cab signal fails.

First answer, YES the MBTA 1921 has cab-signals (BTW, it is being retired)

As for having inoperative cab signals or no cab signals at all....... NORAC rules 280a "Clear to Next Interlocking" and Rule 280b "Approach Normal" would apply.

If the Cab Signals were inoperative on a locomotive operating in cab signal territory (in this case between CP-21 & CP-187), and there was nothing occupying the block between 2 CP's, the train woul operate via Rule 280-a (a.k.a. C lights)......which means: "Trains with inoperative cab signals, automatic train stop, or speed control must proceed on fixed signal indication (and cab signal indication, if operable) not exceeding 79MPH. Trains with inoperative can signals must approach the next home signal prepared to stop, unless Approach Normal (Rule 280b) is displayed on a distant signal prior to the home signal.

Corey, next time you are near CP24, look next to the signal, you will see a clear lense with a white letter "C" on it, this light would be flashing when a train operates on Rule 280a, thus the reason that it is also referred to as "running on C lights".

Just a reminder however, CSXT signal and operating rules are now in effect on the Bostn Line....unfortunately NORAC Rules are gone

i know of the retiring, hense the signature.

I alwayse wondered what the C was for because it was never used, although i did know the aspect.

Does the signal know if theres cab sig or not, if so how?

If the light is on, then what is the rest of the signal, clear, red, off...?

How different are the new csx rules?

CRail wrote:If the light is on, then what is the rest of the signal, clear, red, off...?

I have only seen one movement on the B&A run on "C-lights" thatI can re-call, and they were on the controlled siding in Chatham, NY waiting for us to clear CP 171 so they could head east, so I didn't get a chance to see what the signal looks like...but I beleive the rest ofthe home signal may remain lit (red, plus the flashing white C light). Not sure though.