Binghamton NY - New York City NYC Passenger Rail Discussion

Here are some popoluation numbers for Binghamton;

Population, 1960-2000
1960 1970 1980 1990 2000
Total 250,463 268,328 263,460 264,497 252,320
Change 17,865 -4,868 1,037 -12,177
Percent Change 7.13% -1.81% 0.39% -4.60%

So the population of the city itself continues to shrink.

How can you justify service with a shrinking popluation?

henry6 wrote:But there have been no "views", just uninformed opinions.

I'm not sure how calculating a 5 hour (plus or minus an insignificant bit) trip time is an uninformed opinion. The fact is, it's 4 hours by bus, and you can't stand there and tell any of us, with a straight face, that it would be about the same by train. It's 215 miles, and if it takes over 2 hours to go 90 miles (HOB-PJ on the fastest express and a good railroad), then there's no way you're getting to/from Binghamton in much less than 5. I'm sorry, because as much as I'd love to see regular passenger service to Bingo, you're never going to attract the necessary ridership with that kind of running time. I, for one, don't want my tax dollars being wasted on this kind of thing. I'm all for public funding of mass transportation - hell, as an employee of Metro-North, everyone's helping to pay my salary - but spend it on services that will be useful to the masses, not the few.

Study it to death, wish, think, do what you want, but running scheduled passenger trains to Binghamton is a losing proposition.

Jim

Its sad that it takes just a bit longer from Port Jervis to Hoboken than it does from Dover and Hopatcong on NJT's rinkety dink M&E Lines. Are we sure that the Scranton Route is the shorter route? They talk about more populated areas but if they stop at them, it wont be time competitive.

Well, according to NJT's ridiculously, snailed paced, "Shirley Time scheduling" it would be slower. But in the EL days the Scranton route was the quicker and preffered route out of the two.

To make this work, you have to incorporate it with rail freight, energy and environmental. By rail freight, I mean something novel like France is developing to get trucks off the highways; Need to EASILY load a trailer on a train, transport it QUICKLY to its destination, and EASILY offload the trailer. Bingo to Scranton then Lackawanna Cutoff is really a great route to do this.

In France things do move quikly by rail, in USA it takes a day to load, a day to move and day to unload, the same could be done in france by loading in half hour move takes 4 hour and unloading half hour for distance of 240 miles or so.
Nobody takes a train that takes 5 to 6 hours to get to hoboken vs a bus who gets you downtown in 4 hours flat.

henry6 wrote:But there have been no "views", just uninformed opinions.

I think there have been plenty of "informed" opinions that disagree with yours. Regardless, calling others "scarey" and telling them they know nothing is uncalled for. Typical, but uncalled for.

This might be a corridor that could thrive on some sort of high speed rail, but given the conditions and lack of money to provide these things, I'd say the best bet would be the bus.

The bus is great, until you hit wall to wall traffic jams for 10 straight miles because one lane is blocked for construction or because of an accident, anywhere in Jersey or Eastern PA on I-80. I suppose you could take a bus that goes I-86, instead.

But I would think after about 10 minutes of sitting in traffic with a busload of people, the train's going to look pretty attractive even if there is no time savings.

And personally, I'd drive myself before I took a bus.


But like I said, they're just going to do study after study until either all the interstates become completely clogged, or everyone that wants the railroad back is dead. That way it looks like the politicians are trying and they keep your vote, without really doing anything at all, and blaming it on someone else. A long thoughtful debate is nice, but it's not going to change that.

SecaucusJunction wrote:This might be a corridor that could thrive on some sort of high speed rail, but given the conditions and lack of money to provide these things, I'd say the best bet would be the bus.

Yup, but its not really a lack of money, they have no problem spending billions to widen Route 78 or make way for a road tunnel!!

It breaks my heart to constantly hear that this country doesn't think "outside of the box" like most countries in Europe! Sure, some people come up with ideas, but there is no effort or support here to get the ball rolling and to stop thinking transportation only revolves around the highway and the airport.

My point is, they will spend the billions of dollars, but on highways and airport infastructure, NOT a railroad or high speed rail!! And it doesn't help to have one of the strongest automobile & trucking industry either.

I think the attitude is changing to think outside the box now. Just about every area that once had rail service is now being talked aobut and studied. It was take years to build back what we once had, but at least the studies keep it alive. So again, how does amtrak move with studies. How long did it take them to study and get their "downeaster" in Maine started?

I read on the NY state forum that Senator Schumer wants to study Amtrak service to Binghamton, NY. How does amtrak go about these studies? from the study process to first train, how many years did it take the downeaster to get going?

Talked about and stuided, YES!! But how long must they really talk about and study before they actually lay the rails?? Five to ten years, I can understand, but how bout 15, 20, 30,... It just goes on and on..

They proposed and planned the Cutoff in 1905 and it was done in 1911. The re-dedication and future commuter trains on the Cutoff was first talked about in 1979, now its 2007. How much longer are they gonna be stuck on the preliminary engineering phase???? Probably a long time since you have NIMBYS, environmentalist laws, and other laws and factors that didn't exist back then!

And with Maine, you were dealing with an existing line that had tracks on it. I don't think it would have been as easy if Guilford ripped the rails out completly.

One point that should immediately be recognized here is that service between Binghamton and "downstate" would have to involve New Jersey and, most likely, Pennsylvania. Politicians tend to ignore the realities of infrastructural and geographic constraints until a closer examination of the facts by those more familiar with the obstacles bing them down to earth.

Still, if the multi-state complications can be overcome, the potential market is a promising one, with the Poconos and the anthracite region, both of which have a substantial component of leisure travelers and/or elderly/carless. And the underused infrastructure is definitely in place and available.

Questions

How busy is the Erie nowadays?

Is the Lackawanna through PA still intact?

There has been discussion over at NJT Forum regarding the Blairstown cutoff and restoration of rail commuter service to "play George Washington" and X the Delaware at the Gap, but otherwise enquiring mind wants to know.