Bethlehem Branch questions

Without this turning into a 500 page chat can I just get simple answers...

1. Is the Bethlehem Branch now officially abandoned?
2. Does NS still own it or did they sell it?
3. Why did NS not want it anymore? Was the closing of Beth Steel the final nail in the coffin?

carajul wrote:Without this turning into a 500 page chat can I just get simple answers...

1. Is the Bethlehem Branch now officially abandoned?
2. Does NS still own it or did they sell it?
3. Why did NS not want it anymore? Was the closing of Beth Steel the final nail in the coffin?

Here's my take on it:

1.) From the split off of the ex-LV main by the Bethlehem Union Station, to just South of I-78, the line is officially abandoned. The City of Bethlehem persuaded NS to abandon the line so they could purchase it for their "greenway". I filed a protest with the STB, but to no avail. They said that passenger service could be retained by using PBNE trackage through the mill complex to reach the ex-LV main. Wrong.

2.) After service was abandoned, the City of Bethlehem bought the part that I mentioned above.

3.) As far as I understand, there was no use for it after Bethlehem Steel closed.

From just South of I-78, the Bethlehem Branch is owned by SEPTA and not abandoned. They really don't want service on it though and have recently leased out large sections of the ROW to be trails, but the agreement states that the trails will be removed if rail service is restored.

SEPTA had the "first right of refusal" to purchase the abandoned section of track from Bethlehem Union Station to just past I-78, but they passed on it, basically saying that Bethlehem wasn't a relevant service area for SEPTA to be concerned about.

When did the rails get pulled north of Quakertown? The satellite map shows the double track in but when you do a street view the tracks are gone...just stone

carajul wrote:When did the rails get pulled north of Quakertown? The satellite map shows the double track in but when you do a street view the tracks are gone...just stone

I believe they're supposed to be in place to Shelly. But just past there, removal started in 2008.

Refer to this part of the massive Bethlehem Branch thread to see some pictures:
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... &start=300

go back a few more pages for more pictures....

jrevans wrote: 1.) From the split off of the ex-LV main by the Bethlehem Union Station, to just South of I-78, the line is officially abandoned. The City of Bethlehem persuaded NS to abandon the line so they could purchase it for their "greenway". I filed a protest with the STB, but to no avail. They said that passenger service could be retained by using PBNE trackage through the mill complex to reach the ex-LV main. Wrong.

Question: Why is this "wrong?" Growing up in Bethlehem, long before the branch was abandoned, I had this discussion with others. Running passenger service through the mill complex made sense to us back then. It was obvious the Steel was going to close in the next decade. For any passenger service to Philly, the "main" station should be a brand new park and ride located near the I-78/412 interchange. It would be logical to extend to the former LV line, but a station off of I-78 would see the most use.

I don't think the Union Station site is a good location for the terminus. It's tricky to get to with heavy traffic all around it during commuting hours.

Bethlehem Jct. wrote:

jrevans wrote: 1.) From the split off of the ex-LV main by the Bethlehem Union Station, to just South of I-78, the line is officially abandoned. The City of Bethlehem persuaded NS to abandon the line so they could purchase it for their "greenway". I filed a protest with the STB, but to no avail. They said that passenger service could be retained by using PBNE trackage through the mill complex to reach the ex-LV main. Wrong.

Question: Why is this "wrong?" Growing up in Bethlehem, long before the branch was abandoned, I had this discussion with others. Running passenger service through the mill complex made sense to us back then. It was obvious the Steel was going to close in the next decade. For any passenger service to Philly, the "main" station should be a brand new park and ride located near the I-78/412 interchange. It would be logical to extend to the former LV line, but a station off of I-78 would see the most use.

I don't think the Union Station site is a good location for the terminus. It's tricky to get to with heavy traffic all around it during commuting hours.

I say that it's wrong because in addition to the original abandonment segment which I believe was supposed to end by the PBNE Florence Yard, they also abandoned and removed the tracks all the way past I-78 to the SEPTA connection. Now, there is NO rail connection between the Bethlehem Branch and anything to the North.

I also agree that a park n' ride by I-78 would be the best option. It was so blindingly obvious with an interstate exit combined with an abandoned rail yard for room, but it just didn't happen.
Probably have more luck putting a park n' ride there for NJ/NY bound commuters that are already clogging up I-78....

A park and ride at I-78 would be excellent, but I think service into the city should return in some form, even if not to Union Station. The "grey-way" walking trail passes through very dense residential areas, is very near to parts of Lehigh University, passes within a stone's throw of Sands, and could probably find a better terminus somewhere on the north side of the river, perhaps along Lehigh Street.

I'd settle for the line to make it to I-78, though. Something is much better than nothing!

Thanks for the clarification. We're in complete agreement about the idiocy of abandoning the rails so far and severing the branch. I just didn't understand the context of your "Wrong."

SemperFidelis wrote:A park and ride at I-78 would be excellent, but I think service into the city should return in some form, even if not to Union Station. The "grey-way" walking trail passes through very dense residential areas, is very near to parts of Lehigh University, passes within a stone's throw of Sands, and could probably find a better terminus somewhere on the north side of the river, perhaps along Lehigh Street.

I'd settle for the line to make it to I-78, though. Something is much better than nothing!

For what it's worth, I honestly don't see that ever happening. The opportunity for that was in the late 70's/early 80's when the area was vacant. Since then, it's been rebuilt heavily residential. A station would have to be located east of the Lehigh St. hill up toward 7th Ave, and that's all apartments and townhouses. Beyond that point, everything is elevated above the tracks with little access from public streets. To borrow a phrase from my father, the suggestion of putting a station in that neighborhood would "go over like a fart in church."

EDIT: I should have also added that in the event of some future Lehigh Valley to NYC passenger rail service (which would be the main reason for connecting Bethlehem Branch service to the NS Lehigh Line), that service would go to Allentown. Running trains on the ex-CNJ tracks on the north bank is not advisable because then trains would have to proceed through the classification yard.

SemperFidelis wrote:A park and ride at I-78 would be excellent, but I think service into the city should return in some form, even if not to Union Station. The "grey-way" walking trail passes through very dense residential areas, is very near to parts of Lehigh University, passes within a stone's throw of Sands, and could probably find a better terminus somewhere on the north side of the river, perhaps along Lehigh Street.

I'd settle for the line to make it to I-78, though. Something is much better than nothing!

you are correct, restoring service into the city itself is important if there's ever to be two way traffic. I hope the days of putting stations only on the outskirts of town are behind us (and they seem to be). in middletown (pa) they compromised, they chose a site with room for parking but also walkable to downtown over the acres of parking site further out of town. it may well be there needs to be two stations

The proposed service extension is only supposed to go as far as Quakertown and Shelly. That fits in with SEPTA's operational territory (not going into Lehigh and Northampton Counties) that is, if SEPTA is the operator. Plus, the tracks were removed from below Coopersburg north. It seems like Shelly will be the northernmost terminus for a while. The best thing would be to have bus shuttles from Allentown/Bethlehem to Shelly to meet the trains. That is, if the Shelly service even happens. I think LANTA is against any kind of rail service in the Lehigh Valley, they have no interest in it themselves because because they're too busy with their bus business to care. It wouldn't really matter for me, if I wanted to ride the new service on the Beth Branch we could simply drive down 309 from Hamilton Blvd./222 near where we live to the Shelly station. When will service start, 2030, lol?