Berkshire Flyer: Pittsfield - New York City Service via Albany

RandallW wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 6:43 pm If it's in relation to why the Massachusetts might prefer to run a train from New York instead of Boston, something in Connecticut isn't relevant.

Mr. Randall W, that's is exactly why I'm showing how the Berkshire Div looks at this time. As we have addressed at this topic, It is the most direct route from New York, and further directly serves attractions such as Tanglewood, regarding which, according to a recent articles in The Times, draws more patrons from New York than Boston.

RandallW wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 6:45 pm

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:53 am

RandallW wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 7:22 am

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 7:03 am Why is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts paying to run trains to New York City? Shouldn't they be running to Boston via Springfield and Worcester?

About 66% of Bostonians have a car, while only 45% of New Yorkers have a car, and more New Yorkers vacation in western Mass than Bostonians do as there are simply more New Yorkers than Bostonians (about 4x the number of people are in the NYC MSA than the Boston MSA), so if the Commonwealth wants to get vacationers who are more likely to think of taking a train to spend money in the Pittsfield area (instead of staying just across the line in New York State), they would want to subsidize a seasonal train out of NYC instead of out of Boston.

Twenty seven passengers rode the train on Sunday. Twenty seven passengers does not pay for the fuel of two locomotives and a three man crew. Twenty seven people does that help the local economy??? Twenty of which may or may not have spent a weekend. If your a struggling business and twenty more people show up in town for a weekend, how many are actually going to spend $$ at your business?? Is that really going to help??? Lastly vacation in or around Pittsfield, not likely.

These are similar numbers to last year, even with this years Sunday train staring out of NYP.

Failure, period.

I don't know, or care, how Massachusetts spends their money, but was just trying to answer the question.

Figures never lie and liar always figures. This would be the state of Mass and this train. The numbers tell the truth the train is a waste of money and resources. It has never met ridership goals, EVER. Your not getting the weekend vacationer out of the city. You are getting the Greyhound I need to get my "stuff" from one spot to another traveler.

I don't know if Mr. Junkie is Rules Qualified over the B&A, but he could easily become so (Amtrak T&E have more reason to be Qualified over an array of roads than anyone else in the craft) and hold this job if he were so inclined.

But yet he noted how the whole fiasco is simply a waste of taxpayer $$$$.

If any agency wanted to fund "New York and The Berkshires (dig out your New Haven Form 200, look at Table 11, and you'll see that's how it's titled)", which is the most direct way (141 miles GCT-Pittsfield) to get there.

But today the railroad (Housatonic RR) is the sorry FRA Class 1 mess I shared in that photo, and if it were again to see a passenger train, much work is needed to attain the Class 4 most agencies expect.

Much more discussion, along with dreams of it again having passenger service, is over at the New England Railfan Forum.

if the purpose of the flyer was primarily focused on getting folks from nyc to Lenox etc in a timely fashion via the B&A from albany obviously that wasn't much more than a pipe dream.

by the same token, if anyone really wanted good service from NYC to the berkshires, nobody in high places seems interested in rehabbing the old new haven line which I was told by an ex NH engineer that back in the day on some of their long tangents 100 per was not unheard of.

I tend to believe that the main reason Amtrak jumped on this lets get some service from nyc to the berkshires proposal was the opportunity to make nice with mass Dot and CSX effectively getting their foot in the door with the hope of eventually getting their inland NEC detour route around the ever rising Rhode island ocean flood points.

Safetee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:58 am By the same token, if anyone really wanted good service from NYC to the berkshires, nobody in high places seems interested in rehabbing the old new haven line which I was told by an ex NH engineer that back in the day on some of their long tangents 100 per was not unheard of.

Mr. Safetee, here is the result of one New Haven engineer who "went for the Century" on a tangent between Kent and the North end of Hatch Pond:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thenhrh ... 8-s10.html

SOUTH KENT, Conn., Aug. 28 — Two hundred and fifty-four carefree youngsters returning to New York and New Jersey from vacations passed in three Summer camps in the Berkshire Mountains escaped death or injury today when a six-car special train of the New York, New Haven Hartford Railroad was derailed on a curve here, the engine and the first three coaches plunging into Hatch Pond

Years ago in the early Conrail era i did many inspections of the Massachusetts end and they they had a ton of super elevation in the curves over 6 inches in places which wasn't ideal for 10 mph freight. However it did point out that at sometime in the New Haven days they were flying between Great Barrington and Pittsfield.

Looking at my 1955 New Haven public timetable, passenger trains were allowed 138 minutes to make the 90-mile run from Danbury-Pittsfield. That's an average speed of 39 MPH - no need for 100 MPH running, although getting up to about 60 in places would probably be needed.

It's not that this is so much of "waste of taxpayer money" as a likely quid pro quo for something else in the Commonwealth budget . Our emaciated local news media can't keep up with the scale of political log-rolling involved here, but some correlation analysis of statehouse votes and MassDOT spending plans would be enlightening. Cui bono? (who [ultimately] benefits?), observed the ancient Romans.

in the pre fra days, "making up time" for late passenger trains was a normal modus operandii and obviously involved exceeding the posted limits.

There isn’t even enough demand for a *bus shuttle* to connect with Metro-North at Wassaic. If there was demand then the weekend bus connection to Great Barrington from 10-15 years ago would have been brought back.


But honestly if you live in NYC and have your own place in the Berkshires you definitely have the means to afford your own car and to keep it parked in the Wassaic station lot for those weekend getaways.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:39 am I don't know if Mr. Junkie is Rules Qualified over the B&A, but he could easily become so (Amtrak T&E have more reason to be Qualified over an array of roads than anyone else in the craft) and hold this job if he were so inclined.

But yet he noted how the whole fiasco is simply a waste of taxpayer $$$$.

If any agency wanted to fund "New York and The Berkshires (dig out your New Haven Form 200, look at Table 11, and you'll see that's how it's titled)", which is the most direct way (141 miles GCT-Pittsfield) to get there.

But today the railroad (Housatonic RR) is the sorry FRA Class 1 mess I shared in that photo, and if it were again to see a passenger train, much work is needed to attain the Class 4 most agencies expect.

Much more discussion, along with dreams of it again having passenger service, is over at the New England Railfan Forum.

Yes, Mr Norman at one time I was fully qualified on the B&A in both sides of T&E service. I let the qualifications go many years ago, and I have plenty of seniority to hold any job on the B&A.

Sounds to me, Mr. Junkie, that the only you'd take that Berkshire Flyer job, or for that matter anything else on the B&A, is if it were "forced" on you, but I think with your seniority that is not a concern.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:51 am Sounds to me, Mr. Junkie, that the only you'd take that Berkshire Flyer job, or for that matter anything else on the B&A, is if it were "forced" on you, but I think with your seniority that is not a concern.

The Flyer as it only runs twice a week is in a 9J assignment, basically an extra board slot with a couple of regular jobs mixed in. No thanks. The B&A I enjoyed it as a conductor not so much as an engineer. Five hours twenty minutes or more in the seat can wear on you. I will stick with my eight a day yard job.

Fridays numbers: NYP/PIT 20 with 2 boarding in Albany for a total of 22 deadhead PIT/ALB

That's east to PIT on #1235, correct? Or round trip for the day?