Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by DutchRailnut
MNCR has been looking into Goats, The Green goat that is.
Plans are underway to convert MNCR 750 and 543 into Green Goats.

The Hybrid locomotives operate on batteries with a small diesel kicking in for charges.
MNCR's version may get a third rail charger as well so the Diesel won't even kick in in GCT or in Electrified yards or mainline.
As you see history repeats itself in a modern way, anyone remember the NYC Tri-mode switchers class DES - 2 and 3 ??

  by Nasadowsk
Hey, it was a cute idea years ago....

As a switcher to go tugging work trains/dead trains around, it's kinda a neat idea. I haven't followed the Green Goat's progress much, though I've heard they actually do work, after a good long debugging.

Great for switching, but I don't see the hybrid cycle really doing much for mainline haulage.

It'd be a less gappable electric. Actually, if they lived between GCT and Croton most of the time, they likely could run as battery electrics a lot.

IIRC, the LIRR had a battery-electric MU or two at one time, two. I seem to recall reading about a pure battery MU used in service in England somewhere for a long time.

  by DutchRailnut
Only bad thing about the whole Idea is they want to use two Ex NYC switchers for conversion.

MNCR 543 = Ex Conrail 5432 Exx NYC RR 5770
MNCR 750 = Ex Conrail 7508 Exx NYC RR 5935

  by ELSDP45
I believe 750 still has its steam generator intact. To bad that will go.

  by bill8106
Is it too early to know if (or how) the outside appearence of these will be effected? Are we talking chopped noses, no torpedo tubes on 750...will they lose their classic original looks?

  by LakeHoboken
RPRX 2001 Rail Power Ultra Clean Hybrid Locomotive Is that how the Locomotive is going to look like? It's a nice Locomotive, except for some reason I hate long-hood Locomotives but whatever.

  by DutchRailnut
Thats how it would look after conversion, but with both hoods very low it won't be much of an objection to run long hood or short hood foreward.

The steam generator on the 750 is still there but long outlawed and will never be used again.
It needs to be maintained year round to be able to use it, something that has not been done in years.

  by LakeHoboken
Yeah, IAWTP, they make Hybrid everything these days don't they? I guess I can't wait to ride those, but I'm neutral.

  by Otto Vondrak
You wont be riding behind them unless your train is disabled or you are riding on a work train...

How definite are these plans? Are all Green Goats built on trade-in frames?


  by roee
That's a pretty neat idea. I really think the Green Goat is a cool idea for a switcher. The typical green goat has a small diesel engine that runs the whole time at peak load and charges the batteries (to be most efficient) {I assume it shuts down when the batteries are fully charged) and then the switcher takes all it's power strait from the batteries. There is no connection from the engine to the traction motors (as there is in a Hybrid Car). The idea is that you can take a 200 HP engine and make it give out 2000HP since a switcher rarely uses all the needed HP, but when it needs the 2000HP the juice is there to do it, but just for a shorter period of time. Also the idea is based on the fact that a switcher is at idle (or lower power) most of the time.

As for giving it 3rd rail power as well, that's even better. That way it wouldn't be stuck in 3rd rail territory, but when it is, no need to run the engine.

Also, the Green Goats are always re-built switchers, but they tend to rip them down to the frame and cab, then rebuild them from the frame up.

  by DogBert
seems a little silly to experiment on 2 engines that I presume they need (even if just on standby for when teh snow falls, work calls, etc). Couldn't they just get a shell or two for cheap somewhere? Or somehow use one of the junk FLs? (or are they all scrap by now). If they work out, sell the gp8 and 9...

Grant it they're old, but I assume they're pretty decently maintained.

  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
And if the experiment fails, they'll be out shopping for two new switchers. Can't the rocket scientists leave anything alone? They've got two road switchers that perform admirably. Leave them alone. They waste tax payers money like it's going out of style. But when some meaningful project comes along, oh they're out of cash.

  by joshuahouse
Still not clear about one thing tho, are the Green Goats always rebuilt from old engines or is that just something Metro North wants to try?

  by Nasadowsk
I wouldn't be surprised if Railpower or the FEDs are paying for a good chunk of the conversion. RP did their first few in house and sent them around. I don't think anyone funded them for it initially.

Given the emissions advantages, the fuel savings, and advantages of not firing up a diesel in GCT/park ave tunnels, why not?

In any case - I doubt MN will be seriously short of power if these things flop - and it's not like spare diesel locomotives are THAT hard to find...

  by roee
joshuahouse wrote:Still not clear about one thing tho, are the Green Goats always rebuilt from old engines or is that just something Metro North wants to try?
Always rebuilt from old Switchers.