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  • Are Electrification Projects Dead for NJT

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

 #1291632  by Lackawanna565
 
I don't know if someone asked this on here. Curious if NJT will expand it. I'm sure with the ALP45DPs I guess you can say it's dead. But I read on other sites that NJT is planning on expanding it on the Mountclair-Booton Line, west of Dover, Pocono Mainline (when ever it gets built), Meadowlands line. I'm sure some people say the entire system. It's most likely a rumor. They didn't post any legit sources of information.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Edited thread title.
 #1291636  by Hawaiitiki
 
Lackawanna565 wrote:I don't know if someone asked this on here. Curious if NJT will expand it. I'm sure with the ALP45DPs I guess you can say it's dead. But I read on other sites that NJT is planning on expanding it on the Mountclair-Booton Line, west of Dover, Pocono Mainline (when ever it gets built), Meadowlands line. I'm sure some people say the entire system. It's most likely a rumor. They didn't post any legit sources of information.
I'd say its dead for the near future. In the 90's, there was some serious consideration given to Main Bergen electrification, but it was later dismissed.

If they were serious at all about electrification, they would have wired up the Meadowlands line. It's less than 10 track miles from the Bergen Tunnels mouth to the Meadowlands. The branch, during events, sees extremely heavy shuttle type traffic, which is a situation in which electrification's acceleration advantages would be extremely beneficial. It would have also made available all of NJT's equipment for game days rather than only Diesel and Dual Mode power. And you could have flat out turned off the wires when no event's were happening. But it didn't happen, so I wouldn't bet on it happening anywhere else in NJT anytime soon, aside from maybe the HBLR Northern Branch.
 #1291655  by zerovanity59
 
Hawaiitiki wrote: If they were serious at all about electrification, they would have wired up the Meadowlands line. It's less than 10 track miles from the Bergen Tunnels mouth to the Meadowlands. The branch, during events, sees extremely heavy shuttle type traffic, which is a situation in which electrification's acceleration advantages would be extremely beneficial. It would have also made available all of NJT's equipment for game days rather than only Diesel and Dual Mode power. And you could have flat out turned off the wires when no event's were happening. But it didn't happen, so I wouldn't bet on it happening anywhere else in NJT anytime soon, aside from maybe the HBLR Northern Branch.
I thought the Meadowlands Rail Line was not build for events, but the mall (first Xanadu Meadowlands, then Meadowlands Xanadu, and now American Dream Meadowlands) that never seams to open. It is because the mall is not open that it is only used for events. Therefore, turning off the wires would not have made sense when designing it.

I thought the Northern Branch was to be light rail not heavy, which is a different beast.
 #1291670  by Hawaiitiki
 
zerovanity59 wrote: I thought the Meadowlands Rail Line was not build for events, but the mall (first Xanadu Meadowlands, then Meadowlands Xanadu, and now American Dream Meadowlands) that never seams to open. It is because the mall is not open that it is only used for events. Therefore, turning off the wires would not have made sense when designing it.

I thought the Northern Branch was to be light rail not heavy, which is a different beast.
The Meadowlands line was without a doubt built for events to coincide with parking reductions, parking price increases, an increase in MetLife's capacity over Giants Stadium, and a desire to get more folks off local roads during major events. Regular service to a "to be opened" American Dream was used to sell it as having future use for 365 days out of the year rather than 60.

And yes I know Northern Branch will be 100% Light Rail, I was just making an quip that that'll be the only new NJT wire, regardless of loading gauge, we see in the next 5-7 years.
 #1291685  by Nasadowsk
 
Hawaiitiki wrote: I'd say its dead for the near future. In the 90's, there was some serious consideration given to Main Bergen electrification, but it was later dismissed.
There was serious consideration of doing the entire system. To the point where they were selecting feeders and substation locations.

Warrington killed it all.

Prior to his arrival, they were damn serious about it, and likely would have started on it by now, if not for Warrington...
 #1292030  by Defiant
 
Nasadowsk wrote:
Hawaiitiki wrote: I'd say its dead for the near future. In the 90's, there was some serious consideration given to Main Bergen electrification, but it was later dismissed.
There was serious consideration of doing the entire system. To the point where they were selecting feeders and substation locations.

Warrington killed it all.

Prior to his arrival, they were damn serious about it, and likely would have started on it by now, if not for Warrington...
Any idea why? Warrington, from what I hear, was a good manager for NJT and started many important projects and initiatives, such as bi level trains.

I think many lines going right through the towns would greatly benefit from electrification. For example, BCL literally runs next to the houses in some sections. I feel sorry for people who live there who inhale the fumes every day. Diesel engines are also so much louder the electric.
 #1292107  by zerovanity59
 
FRN9 wrote:The easy answer to this question is to move to IP EMU technology that is being tested now in the UK and Japan. They run under wires to charge up and can go for up to 30 miles independently. Seems perfect for NJT and for MetroNorth.

[url]http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2014/ ... ain-begin/[/url
I think we are at least 10 years from that being a viable alternative under serious consideration here. However, it might be before electric automobiles; because, unlike most electric cars they can charge while in motion.

It do not think they would be useful in the Main, Bergen, or Pascack Valley lines. They might be useful for North Jersey Coast Line for through trains to and from Bay Head, or the Montclair-Boonton Line, which has two sections of electrified and two sections of non-electrified territory.

If NJT does ever (in 20-30 years) want to completely electrify and have no diesels in revenue service, they could be used to bridge the few gaps in NJT/Amtrak ownership, i.e. Conrail ownership on the Raritan Valley Line from Aldene to Hunter and on the Atlantic City Line and Norfolk Southern on the Boonton line west of Netcong.
 #1292206  by ThirdRail7
 
zerovanity59 wrote: If NJT does ever (in 20-30 years) want to completely electrify and have no diesels in revenue service, they could be used to bridge the few gaps in NJT/Amtrak ownership, i.e. Conrail ownership on the Raritan Valley Line from Aldene to Hunter and on the Atlantic City Line and Norfolk Southern on the Boonton line west of Netcong.
A perfect mission for the Alp45s. I'd love to see more electrification, but politics and finances will never allow it to happen. :(
 #1293520  by glennk419
 
zerovanity59 wrote: and on the Atlantic City Line
Ironically, Atlantic City service was electrified many years ago, albeit via the Newfield Branch vs. the current routing utilizing a combination of third rail and overhead trolley wire.
 #1295090  by amtrakowitz
 
Nasadowsk wrote:
Hawaiitiki wrote:I'd say its dead for the near future. In the 90's, there was some serious consideration given to Main Bergen electrification, but it was later dismissed.
There was serious consideration of doing the entire system. To the point where they were selecting feeders and substation locations.

Warrington killed it all.

Prior to his arrival, they were damn serious about it, and likely would have started on it by now, if not for Warrington...
If there was no real capital funding for it, it was not very serious. About as serious as Warrington's predecessor's talk of building a tunnel under Newark Bay to join the under-construction H(B)LR with the Newark-Elizabeth LRT, and about as serious as Warrington's own talk about dual-mode DMUs to serve the Northern Branch.

Of course, at one time NJT was "serious" about not getting dual-mode locomotives too.
 #1295105  by keyboardkat
 
Is the Newfield branch the old, weedgrown right of way that runs through Egg Harbor City? Is it the one that crosses the AC Expressway shortly after leaving AC?
 #1295171  by CentralValleyRail
 
Nasadowsk wrote:
Hawaiitiki wrote: I'd say its dead for the near future. In the 90's, there was some serious consideration given to Main Bergen electrification, but it was later dismissed.
There was serious consideration of doing the entire system. To the point where they were selecting feeders and substation locations.

Warrington killed it all.

Prior to his arrival, they were damn serious about it, and likely would have started on it by now, if not for Warrington...
Your an idiot if you think Warrington killed it.

Warrington was one of the best things that ever happened to New Jersey Transit.

If he was still around today, NJT wouldn't be the biggest laughing stock on the east coast as it currently serves up to be.

And it seems that many people who are middle level managers for NJT agree with me. People above them running the show are an absolute JOKE!

You should hear what some of the "big brass" say on the weekly conference calls. HAHAHA always a good laugh for the rest of us.
 #1295214  by Hawaiitiki
 
CentralValleyRail wrote:
Warrington was one of the best things that ever happened to New Jersey Transit.

If he was still around today, NJT wouldn't be the biggest laughing stock on the east coast as it currently serves up to be.
I agree that a lot of good things happened under the reign of Warrington, however, I wouldn't classify NJT as the "BIGGEST" laughing stock. There's always SEPTA.