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Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

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 #1398538  by GSC
 
I don't have timetables handy nor do I know the train numbers on the Coast Line.

My question is this: Most of the evening westbound 8-car multilevels have a 4-car Comet train following within five minutes or so. With all the capacity of the now-almost empty ML train, what is the reason for the train following, making the same station stops?

Thanks.
 #1398543  by GSC
 
Another question, although not related to the above.

The block signal controlling eastbounds between the Bradley Beach and Asbury Park stations has been showing a flashing yellow indication lately (slow clear?) almost every time I see it. Is this just to warn of grade crossing congestion ahead (which there can be plenty at times)?
 #1398550  by srock1028
 
Are you talking about the one seat ride trains? 3363 and 3373 are the 8 car multilevel sets. Train 4367 follows 3363 but by timetable 23 minutes later and is there to connect passengers from train 3267, the 5:25PM NY departure which gets local travel off train 3511 at South Amboy. Train 2313 follows 3373 but by timetable 14 minutes later and is there as the last Hoboken-Bay Head direct train of the night.
 #1398551  by srock1028
 
GSC wrote:Another question, although not related to the above.

The block signal controlling eastbounds between the Bradley Beach and Asbury Park stations has been showing a flashing yellow indication lately (slow clear?) almost every time I see it. Is this just to warn of grade crossing congestion ahead (which there can be plenty at times)?
The Flashing yellow could be advance approach or medium approach, not sure which one without seeing it. The signals do not detect grade corssing traffic, they detect track occupation ahead by train or work equipment.
 #1398557  by GSC
 
I don't know about timetables, but the 4-car Comets usually follow the 8-car MLs by only five to ten minutes. This is in the Bradley Beach area.

There is nothing ahead of the eastbound trains, but the block signal flashes yellow. I can see all the way to Allenhurst from where I can view the block signal. There is a rebuilding of Monroe Ave. grade crossing in Asbury, but not at night, and this signal aspect started before the work started by over a week.
 #1398561  by srock1028
 
Its may be because the 8 car MLs are running a little late and the 4 car comets are contained between Bay Head and Long Branch so they are usually on-time. I ride one of the 8 car ML sets home at night and sometimes its a few minutes late at my station.

The only other thing I can think of is the flashing yellow is there because of changes in track speeds? Not 100% sure. There is something like this on both sides of Matawan Station. It was part of a FRA order after a train derailment in New York.
 #1398565  by trainbrain
 
I've usually found trains running to and from Hoboken to be almost entirely on-time, while trains to and from NY are often late. That's probably what's happening here.
 #1398854  by EuroStar
 
This is definitely true. There is practically no evening peak hour train that leaves Secaucus Upper Level at its scheduled time. They are all late. They usually arrive 3 to 5 minutes past their scheduled departure time. I cannot imagine Shore trains making up even a minute before splitting off the Northeast Corridor due to the general level of congestion at those times. The direct NYC-Bay Head trains also tend to be more crowded as they run express making them more desirable than the locals. With more passengers getting off saving any time from station dwell is hopeless. Add this all up and those direct trains running 5-7 minutes late past Long Branch seems normal and expected to me.
 #1398948  by CNJ Fan 4evr
 
srock1028 wrote:
GSC wrote:Another question, although not related to the above.

The block signal controlling eastbounds between the Bradley Beach and Asbury Park stations has been showing a flashing yellow indication lately (slow clear?) almost every time I see it. Is this just to warn of grade crossing congestion ahead (which there can be plenty at times)?
The Flashing yellow could be advance approach or medium approach, not sure which one without seeing it. The signals do not detect grade corssing traffic, they detect track occupation ahead by train or work equipment.
Might be track work. I was at the No. Asbury Park station a few weeks ago. The north bound train was running south bound track and the south bound train was delayed by 10 minutes or more.
 #1399627  by GSC
 
Might be track work. I was at the No. Asbury Park station a few weeks ago. The north bound train was running south bound track and the south bound train was delayed by 10 minutes or more.[/quote]

As I said before, there is nothing in front of the eastbound train all the way to at least Allenhurst. There was grade crossing work in Asbury Park, but that only lasted a couple of days. The signal has been flashing yellow for over a month now.

Another signal question: Westbound, there is a single target block signal before the absolute signals protecting Shark River Draw and the crossover before it. Eastbound, there is a two-target signal before the Shark signals in Belmar. What would this two-banger indicate that the westbound distant signal couldn't?

Signals have always fascinated me, especially the old CNJ 3-over-3-over-3 absolute signals and the smashboard at the river draws.
 #1399635  by OportRailfan
 
srock1028 wrote:...
The only other thing I can think of is the flashing yellow is there because of changes in track speeds? Not 100% sure. There is something like this on both sides of Matawan Station. It was part of a FRA order after a train derailment in New York.
After the derailment of a train recently, the FRA enacted orders to slow trains where the drop in MAS was over a specified amount. Revisions to the signal system were most likely performed to limit the most favorable aspect from a "Clear(281)" to "Advance Approach(282-A)", as a means to enforce the speed reduction on board the train, through its cab-signaling. (See also: PTC not yet installed on NJT)

I've noticed NJT, like others, is using the signal system not to inform engineers of block occupancy, but also as a means of speed regulation. This is apparent where the most favorable aspect coming West into South Amboy station is a "Approach Limited", regardless of how many blocks ahead are unoccupied.

@GSC, check out the NORAC signal rules, 281-292
http://signals.jovet.net/rules/NORAC%20 ... 0Rules.pdf
Last edited by OportRailfan on Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 #1399637  by OportRailfan
 
GSC wrote:...
Another signal question: Westbound, there is a single target block signal before the absolute signals protecting Shark River Draw and the crossover before it. Eastbound, there is a two-target signal before the Shark signals in Belmar. What would this two-banger indicate that the westbound distant signal couldn't? ...
More heads/targets/arms = more complex signal aspects can be conveyed. 1 GRS/Alstom type G heads can convey 5 different aspects (flashing aspects). 2 heads = a lot more signal aspects. Hope this answers your question.
 #1399888  by GSC
 
[quote=More heads/targets/arms = more complex signal aspects can be conveyed. 1 GRS/Alstom type G heads can convey 5 different aspects (flashing aspects). 2 heads = a lot more signal aspects. Hope this answers your question.[/quote]

I understand that more aspects can be shown with two signal heads. I just wonder what they could be showing. Eastbound, nothing ahead but a station and Shark River Draw with its own signals. Westbound toward the bridge are crossovers, protected by the bridge absolute signals. Why would more aspects be needed? Unless, on summer Saturday and Tuesday nights when the line of kids waiting to get into Bar A stretches across the tracks at 16th Avenue. I've seen trains inching through there on busy bars nights.
 #1401534  by OportRailfan
 
GSC wrote: Why would more aspects be needed?
More aspects needed based on the grade, curves, structures ahead, track speed change, grade crossings, etc., and as a distant to another home signal?
 #1401962  by GSC
 
As far as the flashing yellow eastbound after the Bradley Beach station and yard, maybe it's a caution thing for the Corlies Ave. Rt 33 crossing. When a westbound train stops at Asbury Park, the gates for 33 are down. They time out and go back up. When the train starts moving, the gates come down again, frustrating all those car drivers who don't understand why the gates operate twice. Not many, but a few, cars will run the gates probably figuring they'll just go up without a train coming.

For you folks who think I'm seeing things as far as a train right behind a train, this happened Monday night at Bradley Beach:
The westbound MLs usually arrive about 10 minutes to the hour, thereabouts. Let's just call them the 7, 8, and 9 o'clock trains, 8 cars, multilevel.
The 7:00 ML had a 4-car Comet train following 7 minutes behind. The 8:00 had a train 6 minutes behind. The 9:00 had a follower in 8 minutes.
There must be a reason the second trains, supposedly 20-25 minutes behind by timetable, are almost right on top of the MLs. Are the MLs that late out of the chute?
There are those who argue this "can't" happen. It does, almost every night.

BTW, I just don't sit there trainwatching. I drive a local taxi and I'm near the stations all the time.