Amtrak Proposes Adding New Service to Scranton

Take a bus to Bingo,or take a bus to MN service in Port Jervis, Rail not cost effective to this city.
The Cutoff STOPS at Andover NJ.

And that, for anyone who doesn't get it, is the problem. I had plenty of miserable rides on Martz on those badly overpacked and worn out roads. I've driven them plenty of times and that's not any better. Scranton's been dying for decades yet has some good tourist destinations. Train service to NYP is badly needed, it's got to be designed, built and run properly. And Eastern PA needs all sorts of train service as does Binghamton and the Southern Tier. College students from Long Island go to schools in Western NY including the 2 Alfreds and in Buffalo and Rochester. The area is poor but could do so much better with improved transportation.

Many of the cities in Northeastern PA in general are struggling but Scranton seems to be doing a little better than most of those cities. I have ridden Greyhound and Martz from NYC to Scranton and must say that I would rather be on the train. I am not one for all of those massive traffic jams on 80. I'd much rather not be sitting on a parked bus for several minutes just looking at the Delaware Water Gap.

I wouldn't expect any passenger rail service from NYC to Wilkes-Barre. That would require a spur at E. Stroudsburg.

This now just boils down to the basic set of points:

1. Roads for cars/trucks/buses are terrible, because nobody's maintaining them.
2. Buses only free up room on the roads for other cars/trucks to fill them.
3. We're running out of room for more roads.
4. You need to move a ton more people faster than what roads allow.
5. The only proven way to do that is by train.

We have now proven that bus service will not cut it anymore, including commuter bus. The minimum now is train service for NYC-Scranton.

Get building.

Backshophoss wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:40 pm This might be the only workable way to do this,Albany-Bingo- Buffalo-Niagara Falls station/crew base . Since Amtrak T&E cres are Qualified for Albany-Bingo- Elmira-Hornell to reach the CAF Factory and Alstrom Factory for Acela II
NS might need to do some track work from Elmira -Buffalo segment, as a possible Empire Service add on,
Gov Cuomo might go for that possibility.
Sorry guys/gals,Thruway Bus to Scranton.

Somewhat relevant fun historical fact: the entire Erie route was constructed as a NYS economic development project for the Southern Tier starting in the 1830's. State legislators from those districts saw the boom caused by the Erie Canal to the north in the 1820's and wanted their piece of the pie. That's why the route was so odd, with an eastern terminus at Piermont-on-Hudson and a western terminus at Dunkirk, and a long slog up the Delaware through the middle of nowhere instead of a loop west to tap the coal deposits of the Lackawanna Valley.

Train NYP to WB would go via Scranton. Just like Martz often does. And again, the roads are jammed, and long rides on a bus, even a decent bus are painful and certainly not a way to promote tourism. BTW, the state of Pennsylvania knows this, and so do the rail authorities of eastern PA and NEPA. They badly want commuters moved from buses and cars to trains. And overall, trains can be so much more cost effective long term even if we do have to build and rebuild.

But this isn't gonna' happen without federal capital investment to rebuild The Cut Off.
Pennsylvania can barely fund SEPTA , NJ still hasn't gotten Andover done after all this time,
and they can't even get an obvious beneficial to Bergen County extension of the North Branch HBLR to Englewood realized.The irrevocable mistake was made years ago by letting Conrail sell off the right of way to a private investor..CP wanted The Cut Off for a gateway into NYC and it was disregarded...So where will the money come from..??





J

That's a valid question. I'm guessing that Biden will be a lot friendlier to transit commuter and passenger rail that the current limo rider.

I have not been a resident of the Commonwealth in 33 years, but I seen the Commonwealth spent a lot of money on stations on the Keystone Serivice route and now are working on outright ownership of the route [an aside they did originally own the Lancaster-Philadelphia segment 170 years ago]. So they had some money to spend.

I think the representatives from NE Pennsylvania should be pushing harder and figuring out how to leverage the Commonwealth's funding. I may be mistaken but I did not see where any of this discussion shows that, a lot about Amtrak barging ahead rebuilding the Cutoff in New Jersey which the Garden State can not get into Andover yet. Yes, there is a tunnel to fix but how many years have they been discerning that? Perhaps restoring the Cutoff is not as easy as debated, after all it has been near forty years since the rails were lifted and r.o.w. maintained [stuff happens].

I have just heard so much about this since Amtrak was started.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:59 am This now just boils down to the basic set of points:

1. Roads for cars/trucks/buses are terrible, because nobody's maintaining them.
2. Buses only free up room on the roads for other cars/trucks to fill them.
3. We're running out of room for more roads.
4. You need to move a ton more people faster than what roads allow.
5. The only proven way to do that is by train.

We have now proven that bus service will not cut it anymore, including commuter bus. The minimum now is train service for NYC-Scranton.

Get building.

Agreed. Rail transport is much more efficient than bus any day.

MickD wrote:But this isn't gonna' happen without federal capital investment to rebuild The Cut Off.
Pennsylvania can barely fund SEPTA , NJ still hasn't gotten Andover done after all this time,
and they can't even get an obvious beneficial to Bergen County extension of the North Branch HBLR to Englewood realized.The irrevocable mistake was made years ago by letting Conrail sell off the right of way to a private investor..CP wanted The Cut Off for a gateway into NYC and it was disregarded...So where will the money come from..??
J

Or a private company with more private investment than both NJDOT and PennDOT could have for the project could run the route...

Exactly..which I'm not sure the economic climate is there for..
Some of the western NJ towns like Blairstown,which should be a stop to make it work,
are against it because they don't want an influx of population...so it'll take
a considerable regional back & forth,as with NJ/Penn DOTs, even with private investment

Under Chrissy, NJT was starved for funding. Work on the Cutoff froze. Fleet maintenance disappeared. As to Amtrak, this is planning. And I think if NJT in cooperation with PA, and with NEPA's rail authority, got this done, Amtrak would take a much closer look, because NEPA would then be connected to the NYC rail network, on one side, WB, Southern Tier, etc. on the other.

One big issue is that NJ and PA are not cooperating on this. There is no way PA will kick in for construction in NJ.
It appears that Warren County does not want the cutoff restored. There doesn't seem to be a big constituency in NJ for restoration of the Cutoff. That constituency seems to exist in PA. But PA is having trouble agreeing to put up the money for a second Phll-Pittsburgh train. The second train to Pittsburgh would cost vastly less than running trains to Scranton and the ridership would be much greater. After PA springs for the second train, it can think about service to Scranton. One issue is that Covid has shown the practicality of remote working for anyone who had doubts. I would think that punishingly long commutes, like Poconos-NYP, would in most cases be good candidates for telework. Scranton-NYP is too long a trip for a daily commute. With the congestion on the M&E, a new Scranton train couldn't match Phoebe's time even if it sped along the Cutoff at 110 MPH.

Again, this has nothing to do with Pittsburgh trains. And no one ever said PA would pay for things inside NJ. And if you've suffered through rush hour trips by bus to the PA, you'd get a train, at least, is far more comfortable and has a viable bathroom.

The cutoff rebuild STOPS at Andover station,PaDOT has no funding for this route,Has no funding for SEPTA
This is an non startable route,Bus connection from Bingo best bet for now with Albany-Bingo-Buffalo train service option