Amtrak New Gulf Coast Service - New Orleans to Mobile AL

Maybe different service patterns, too: different volumes of different kinds of things to different kinds of customers. There's no export grain or coal or whatever coming to Boston via CSX.

Rail Workers United Weighs in: https://dcms-external.s3.amazonaws.com/ ... 304077.pdf

If the Class One railroads were in fact keeping their trains to schedule, then running a few 500-foot passenger trains each day would consume practically no track capacity at all and cause no disruption and limited need for infrastructure improvements. But when you operate on a model that cannot anticipate when a 15,000-foot train may arrive/depart Mobile, AL (or any other terminal), then such scheduled trains - as minuscule and fleet as they might be - create a problem. It is a sad day when a highly profitable railroad that only runs 11 trains a day on a mainline can demand $2.3 billion from the taxpayers for infrastructure improvements to add a handful of passenger trains on a route of 145 miles. (Note: This $2.3 billion figure is more than CSX spent on capital improvements to its entire network of 21,00 miles in 2017!)

Mr. Noah, I think some clarification is needed regarding what Railroad Workers United is - and isn't.

The group was founded during '07, or long after I had left the industry, so I never had any exposure to the nature, scope, and objectives of the group.

This group does not hold any contract to represent any craft of employees. Therefore, they cannot call themselves a Union at this time.

Now it does appear to be a group comprised of employees who feel underrepresented by their union (the one actually holding the contract) which could suggest they are appealing to the "malcontents" that will be found in any organization.

In short, keep the salt shaker handy when reviewing their material.

They might be a group of malcontents, but they're not wrong. It seems every time AMTRAK wants to increase service even by one round trip a day, NS or CSX or whoever sees an opportunity for a cash grab of billions from John Q. Public to make the improvements they should have done themselves but wanted to wait to see if they could get a government agency (us) to pay for it.

Don't blame the railroads for finding ways to get politicians to open up their wallets on boondoggles.

Blame the politicians for agreeing to it as a way to try and win votes or prove they're bringing improvements back to their districts...

From the railroad's point of view, they have every right to ask for improvements to accommodate a new service if there's a business case.

Plus, don't forget that new laws on the book hold railroads accountable in the terms of fines and penalties if OTP isn't met, so they have a new reason (and an obligation) to demand improvement they see as necessary to meet those commitments...

How many freight only routes are having improvements? Like to compare mileages.

What is a realistic start date/year for this route?

mterrell wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:56 am What is a realistic start date/year for this route?

In the Year 2525…

Possibly what is needed is for Amtrak to pay Chessie enough so that she is willing to operate the trains to "undo" her Precision Railroading operating practices over that piece of road. Who knows, she might even win back a customer down there. One must wonder if there are high value components that formerly moved by rail to Ingalls that now move by highway?

AMTRAK should be paying whatever the freight line is getting per train on average for every trip and any passenger facilities and have the freight lines pay for their own improvements that they want. And I agree the politicians are the main problem here. CSAO wants TNJ to pay for a separate passenger track and an EXTRA freight track between Camden and Woodbury to run their 3 to 4 trains a day in case business ever increases and it looks like the politicians will cave in. While making TNJ pay for a separate track is certainly understandable, why should the taxpayers be hit for a bill to provide CSAO with another track in case business improves? This is why people call these things boondoggles and won't support them.

Wholly concur with your immediate thought, Mr. Washington Park.

If both Amtrak for the LD's and the Local sponsors of regional trains such as this "Expo Limited" resurrection paid the full opportunity cost of a priority train (that's a "Z" on Warren's road; no wonder such go tearing through my village at 60mph while "manifiests" are held to 25; don't know what Chessie calls such), then "we're talkin'".

For all we know, they already do as such provisions are wrapped into a bilateral agreement shielded from any FOIA prying eyes. But I highly doubt if that is the case.

WashingtonPark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:07 pm AMTRAK should be paying whatever the freight line is getting per train on average for every trip and any passenger facilities and have the freight lines pay for their own improvements that they want. And I agree the politicians are the main problem here. CSAO wants TNJ to pay for a separate passenger track and an EXTRA freight track between Camden and Woodbury to run their 3 to 4 trains a day in case business ever increases and it looks like the politicians will cave in. While making TNJ pay for a separate track is certainly understandable, why should the taxpayers be hit for a bill to provide CSAO with another track in case business improves? This is why people call these things boondoggles and won't support them.

Much like Illinois paid to improve UP?

And... in yet another blow to Mobile.... the last remaining cruise ship currently homeported at Mobile will be retiring in October 2022, and there's no replacement until Fall 2023 at the earliest.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/arti ... dest-ships

https://www.al.com/news/2022/02/mobile- ... tober.html

Carnival Cruise Line won’t be sailing out of Mobile for at least 11 months after the final voyage of the Carnival Ecstasy sails from the city’s downtown terminal on October 15, Mobile Mayor Sandy Stimpson confirmed in a statement Friday.

Stimpson said that Carnival Cruise Line president Christine Duffy contacted him on Thursday to inform him that cruising will be halted from the Alabama Cruise Terminal effective October 15 until September 2023.

From September 2023, Carnival Spirit (soon to be the third oldest ship in the fleet at 21 years old) is planned to come to Mobile until March 2024 when she heads back to do Alaska cruises... She's been in Australia but the uncertainty in that market is causing CCL to move it to Jacksonville first, and then over to Mobile before heading back to the Pacific in March 2024 to serve the Alaska market.

With regard to the rail service... I don't know that having a cruise ship homeported at Mobile would have added or detracted from ridership. Carnival alone has two newer/larger ships homeported at NOL, and both Norwegian and Disney also sail from the port in addition to the Mississippi River cruises offered by American Queen and American Cruise Lines.

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:25 pm And... in yet another blow to Mobile.... the last remaining cruise ship currently homeported at Mobile will be retiring in October 2022, and there's no replacement until Fall 2023 at the earliest.
...
With regard to the rail service... I don't know that having a cruise ship homeported at Mobile would have added or detracted from ridership. Carnival alone has two newer/larger ships homeported at NOL, and both Norwegian and Disney also sail from the port in addition to the Mississippi River cruises offered by American Queen and American Cruise Lines.

Hmmm... ferry service between NOL and Mobile...

NOL to Mobile is roughly 150 track miles. That's 2.5 hours (given an average 60 MPH travel speed).

NOL to Mobile by ferry is about 164 miles over the water. Hmmm... hold on, let me ask my Boston friend here, she's a ferry boat captain... 40 knots on average, 58 for the world record. The average translates to 46 mph... 3h 20m max.

The only way folks would take the boat over the train would be sheer experience, and that only goes so far. That's a pure tourist attraction.

Now I got Rolling Down the River going through my head.

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:25 pm And... in yet another blow to Mobile.... the last remaining cruise ship currently homeported at Mobile will be retiring in October 2022, and there's no replacement until Fall 2023 at the earliest.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/arti ... dest-ships

https://www.al.com/news/2022/02/mobile- ... tober.html

Carnival Cruise Line won’t be sailing out of Mobile for at least 11 months after the final voyage of the Carnival Ecstasy sails from the city’s downtown terminal on October 15, Mobile Mayor Sandy Stimpson confirmed in a statement Friday.

Stimpson said that Carnival Cruise Line president Christine Duffy contacted him on Thursday to inform him that cruising will be halted from the Alabama Cruise Terminal effective October 15 until September 2023.

From September 2023, Carnival Spirit (soon to be the third oldest ship in the fleet at 21 years old) is planned to come to Mobile until March 2024 when she heads back to do Alaska cruises... She's been in Australia but the uncertainty in that market is causing CCL to move it to Jacksonville first, and then over to Mobile before heading back to the Pacific in March 2024 to serve the Alaska market.

With regard to the rail service... I don't know that having a cruise ship homeported at Mobile would have added or detracted from ridership. Carnival alone has two newer/larger ships homeported at NOL, and both Norwegian and Disney also sail from the port in addition to the Mississippi River cruises offered by American Queen and American Cruise Lines.

I don't see where a cruise ship would interfere with Amtrak or vice versa. A cruise ship is only in port one day a week usually arriving around 7:30am and departing around 4pm. Two trains a day should not block a crossing for more than 45 seconds and affect cruise ships only once a week. Not really a big deal.