Amtrak Mexico connections?

Gilbert B Norman wrote:To my knowledge, the only passenger service operating in Mexico is Los Mochis-Chihuahua over the ChP and an excursion train Guadalajara-Tequila. Given the civil unrest almost anywhere in Mexico, including even the fringes of resort areas in both Acapulco and Cancun, it is a wonder if either of those services are operating today.

For myself, just as glad I did my Mexico travel when i did; namely Juarez-Chihuahua Dec 70, Laredo to Mexico Feb 73 (air return), and (air) Monterrey-Mexico-Guadalajara-Suffragio-Chihuahua-Juarez (air) March 75. You're not about to catch me going down there - any destination, any mode - nowadays.

Finally, as I've noted here in the past, the reason the Mexican passenger system disappeared overnight (but had been significantly downgraded beforehand i.e. killing Sleepers and Diners) is that when Mexico seeked to "privatize" the State owned railroads (NdeM, FCP, FCY, ChP, and I'm sure one or two others I forgot), and both UP and KCS came to the table, a condition was laid down fast; no passenger trains and "don't even think about a Mextrak".

At this time, i have no knowledge to what extent the US investment in the Mexican railways has paid off (any thoughts, Ms. Bly?), I think that day of reckoning will have to wait until economies recover, the proposed Mexican maritime ports are developed, and the "political-social" conditions are stabilized.

disclaimer: author holds positions: KSU, UNP

Speak for yourself, Mr. Norman. I'm still waiting for the GADSDEN PURCHASE to pay off!

Gilbert B Norman wrote:To my knowledge, the only passenger service operating in Mexico is Los Mochis-Chihuahua over the ChP and an excursion train Guadalajara-Tequila. Given the civil unrest almost anywhere in Mexico, including even the fringes of resort areas in both Acapulco and Cancun, it is a wonder if either of those services are operating today.

There is a commuter operation in Mexico City (actual commuter rail, not the Metro): http://www.fsuburbanos.com/ (site appears to available only in Spanish).

I think the standard advice given to emerging-market nations in the '90's was to privatize their rail networks and eliminate passenger service (who rides trains anyway?). I think the results of many nations implementing that advice have been decidedly mixed. Wonder what they would have advised the French and Japanese after WWII?

To tie this back to Amtrak, there is no prospect of any cross-border service to Mexico as far as any eye can see. Amtrak's international operations will be restricted to our Neighbor to the North.

Pacific 2-3-1 wrote:Speak for yourself, Mr. Norman. I'm still waiting for the GADSDEN PURCHASE to pay off!

Artur Honegger, I think that one has paid off, in view of that the purchase included Tucson.

BTW FWIW, I heard the Utah Symphony perform last April; truly a world class ensemble.

I don't fault KCS/UNP for the "no mextrak" clause at privatisation, but I would've loved to connect via Eagle to Mexico City or the like. I'm a former CHP passenger and it was the coolest trip I've taken on this continent.

there was a mexican train proposed in the express package under warringtons glidepath to self sufficency .like all the other proposals nothing came of it .

Station Aficionado wrote:
To tie this back to Amtrak, there is no prospect of any cross-border service to Mexico as far as any eye can see. Amtrak's international operations will be restricted to our Neighbor to the North.

There have been recent proposals for HSR between Mexico City and Guadalajara, and I think that would be a good starting point for service north.

So no, not in 10 years, not in 20, but maybe in 30.

I think in the shorter term, it's more likely that we will see a local cross-border (non-amtrak) service such as extending the san diego trolley into tijuana.

The original privatization plan (worked out, I think, by Booz Allen working with the Mexican Ministry of Communications and Transport) called for dividing the network into five concessions: two large competing systems in the north of Mexico, plus one regional, a concession in the Yucatan and along the Gulf Coast, plus a terminal railroad in the Valle de Mexico which would be neutral and possibly have ownership shared by the railroads reaching Mexico City.

The line across the Isthmus of Tehuantepec remained government-owned at the time of the initial privatization, pending plans for a "dry canal".

The crown jewel of the concessions, with about 40% of Mexican rail traffic, was the network that became TFM (Transportes Ferroviarias Mexicanas) and later KCS de Mexico. After a restructuring (basically because KCS overpaid initially) it has done pretty well. The second big concession, Ferromex, also in the north, has a minority holding by Union Pacific, and has been somewhat less successful.

I don't know how the regional railroad in northern Mexico has worked out; haven't heard.

The southern concession was awarded to Genesee & Wyoming, and has been a disaster, in part because of low traffic but in larger part because of extensive hurricane damage over the last several years. G&W has walked, and it remains to be seen what the Mexican government will do about restoring rail service in the south.

I did some work in Mexico about a dozen years ago. The TFM line to Lazaro Cardenas, on the Pacific, is in excellent shape (I hi-railed it), and plans are underway to build a new container port at Lazaro Cardenas (which currently has a large steel mill right on the beach -- something of a tourist disincentive -- ain't socialism wonderful?). KCS is hoping to open a new rail'/water gateway there (shades of the Kansas City, Mexico, and Orient!).

The electrification from Mexico to Queretaro has been de-energized. The locos have been sold (BM&LP bought several). There was talk of leaving the wire up for the commuter rail service in Mexico City. Don't know if this has been done.

On the whole, privatization seems to have worked out fairly well in Mexico -- largely because the Mexican network functions as an integral part of the North American standard gauge network.

While I realize we have diverted WAY away from anything Amtrak, or even passenger, related at this topic, allow me to say thank you to Ms. Bly for her report regarding status of railroads 'South of the Border'.

Little Google Man seems to think Ciudad Lazaro Cardenas, Michoacán appears well established as a maritime port.

However, the economic downturn and political unrest can only have an unsettling condition as to the Port's viability, that a Mexican "Along the Shore Man' only earns a fraction of the US Counterpart, is only "so much' of a benefit and could well be outweighed by considerably greater Admiralty insurance costs.

disclaimer; author holds position KSU UNP

NellieBly wrote:The electrification from Mexico to Queretaro has been de-energized. The locos have been sold (BM&LP bought several). There was talk of leaving the wire up for the commuter rail service in Mexico City. Don't know if this has been done.

There were photos in Railway Age to illustrate this, showing how one track's wire was pushed to the side to clear double stack trains, without actually cutting it down. So, to bring this back on topic (s0rt of), the wire could have been used for future joint Amtrak electric trains from the NorthEast.

Ref: Ms. Bly's immediate:

As delivered May 1983:

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/nmea011.jpg

As "repatriated' April 2006:

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0706/nmea018.jpg

Well the Capitol Limited goes through Mexico, but I can't recall if it ever stopped there.

Pennsylvanian vice Capitol Limited; perchance?

No, Capitol Limited

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local ... 961e32ca83

New Amtrak line would connect major Texas cities to Monterrey, Mexico
After years of talks, there's a renewed push to expand the Amtrak passenger rail service route from Texas to Monterrey.
...
Members of the Texas Passenger Rail Advisory Committee are considering a route that would connect major Texas cities directly to Monterrey, Mexico.

"The idea is to get to a place where we have one line where that would go on that route, but could also connect to either through Laredo or through McAllen in South Texas and then to Monterrey, Mexico. A lot of manufacturing takes place. There are a lot of companies that are leaving Asia and are coming closer to the United States to set up shop in the Monterrey, Mexico, Nuevo Leon region are causing a lot of this growth," Travis County Judge Andy Brown said.
...

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:54 am https://www.khou.com/article/news/local ... 961e32ca83

New Amtrak line would connect major Texas cities to Monterrey, Mexico
After years of talks, there's a renewed push to expand the Amtrak passenger rail service route from Texas to Monterrey.
...
Members of the Texas Passenger Rail Advisory Committee are considering a route that would connect major Texas cities directly to Monterrey, Mexico.

"The idea is to get to a place where we have one line where that would go on that route, but could also connect to either through Laredo or through McAllen in South Texas and then to Monterrey, Mexico. A lot of manufacturing takes place. There are a lot of companies that are leaving Asia and are coming closer to the United States to set up shop in the Monterrey, Mexico, Nuevo Leon region are causing a lot of this growth," Travis County Judge Andy Brown said.
...

Texas Passenger Rail Advisory Committee drops the first word in its title," Central". This committee was formed by the mayors of Austin and San Antonio, for advocacy purposes. It has no official power from the State Legislature. No power to legislate, no power to tax, and no power to spend state funds.
Lone Star Rail died a slow death more than a decade ago because it had no power, no money, and no trains. This is just a political ploy to bring it back, without the State granting it an official status that Lone Star Rail had.

If the Cities of Dallas and Fort Worth can get together to buy the TRE corridor from the Rock Island bankruptcy court with entirely local funds, and create the TRE from the ground up, I'm sure the cities of Austin and San Antonio could figure out how to buy a railroad corridor with entirely local funds. It's a shame the UP railroad is not facing bankruptcy so they can buy the railroad corridor cheaply.