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  • Amtrak in Miami (Hialeah, Miami Intermodal Center/Airport)

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1560813  by JimBoylan
 
electricron wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:13 pmHere is an analogy, take it or leave it. Miami built a brand new shoe and Amtrak is saying the shoe is too small. Miami's answer is cut of your toes off and the shoe will fit. Amtrak's reply, we love our toes and therefore you can keep your new shoe. Our old shoe works perfectly for us, it is well broken in, and it fits.
Not quite. Miami's (or Florida's) answer was, "We'll cut an end off the shoe and your heel or toes can stick out on days that they are swollen." Amtrak's reply is still the same.
 #1560868  by Erie-Lackawanna
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:13 am Now where I am at a loss is understanding why Tri-Rail has not yet accessed the Miami Central facility. The "oh we still have to work on the PTC" lame-one is becoming a bit old. Considering many of us around here have "PTC of sorts" in our autos today (next hurdle is to have it force adherence to posted speeds and traffic signals), why can't it be perfected for the rails? Lest we forget, the enabling legislation, RSIA 08, was enacted twelve years ago.
It’s not Tri-Rail’s fault. SFRTA installed the on-board equipment that FEC required for its proprietary-to-FEC PTC solution, in addition to the PTC on-board equipment required for its own “standard” system (Wabtec IETMS). FEC was unable to make their proprietary system work, and last year they gave up and decided to go with...Wabtec IETMS. They’ve had to start from scratch, and while Tri-Rail’s equipment is ready to go, FEC is not.

As a result, not only did SFRTA waste its money on the FEC system installation on its equipment, it also is forced to delay the extension to MiamiCentral, which they are very eager to start using.

Jim
 #1560913  by bostontrainguy
 
No there is land to extend the platforms. You would have a road crossing through the middle but that is not insurmountable. Plenty of Amtrak trains stop across streets. Platforms are low level so it would not be that expensive a job.

The expensive job was the building of the bypass road which does have signals and signs telling drivers that the street will be blocked and to use the new bypass alternative. Of course they have never been used.

Miami is a real strange situation with lots of lost opportunity. One thing I do know is that Amtrak's Hialeah station is the worst of all three options located in a desolate undesirable area. The airport would be much better.
 #1560922  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Train Guy, passenger convenience and service attractiveness is clearly now secondary with Amtrak to operational efficiency.

Reiterating points I previously made at this topic, to serve the Airport facility first means that rent would need be paid to the airport authority, which I presume is avoided by staying away from there.

Operationally, an arriving train could not be expected to be at the Maintenance Facility for at least an hour after its airport arrival. That depends upon when the FEC has traffic to handle to or from its yard at Hialeah, as all that traffic X's the "diamond" at Iris. A train to make an on time departure from the airport would need leave Amtrak's Hialeah yard one hour prior than its current "set" time. Somehow, I think the term " late set" would become far more endemic at MIA than it presently is.

At present with the "one a day" frequency, that would mean four additional movements over the X-ing. If frequency is restored to "two a day", that four becomes eight.

Handling Tri-Rail over that FEC X-ing is a separate agreement between those two parties.

The only Amtrak passengers that would be benefitted by the airport station would be those who desire to rent an auto (and willing to pay airport rates). Amtrak must have knowledge of "how many", but I would think that number is low. Passengers will either be "met" by friends/relatives, or will take a taxicab to destination. I guess I should acknowledge that those desiring to use a jitney, such as Shuttle America, would be benefitted by the airport as well.

All told, this is simply reiterating why I think Amtrak is best advised to "stay put".
 #1560930  by bostontrainguy
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:30 pm The only Amtrak passengers that would be benefitted by the airport station would be those who desire to rent an auto (and willing to pay airport rates). Amtrak must have knowledge of "how many", but I would think that number is low. Passengers will either be "met" by friends/relatives, or will take a taxicab to destination.
You completely lost me here Mr. Norman. Florida is a huge tourist destination and therefore a huge car rental market. I have often visited this area and whenever we have arrived at Hialeah we then had to Uber to a car rental agency or hotel which were near the airport station. There is a large number of hotels around the airport and none around the Hialeah station.

Also I have usually found that the rental rates at the airports are much cheaper than those in downtown areas or near Amtrak stations and it is always much easier to rent, get and return your car at the airport. Last visit to Orlando required a crowded time-consuming van ride to a downtown rental agency even though there is a Hertz rental desk in the Amtrak Station. The reverse was necessary on our return.

My experience in taking Amtrak to Miami and Orlando has usually required a rental car and it has usually been a rather inconvenient non-seamless experience. There are also a few hotels very near the airport station which will give you a free ride to the Miami Cruise Port if you overnight there. In either case the airport station is much more convenient.
Last edited by bostontrainguy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 #1560938  by Backshophoss
 
Does the "Brightline" station have the room for the winter season Silver service trains? and how easy or painful is access to Amtrak's Hialeah yard and shop from that station?
How much rent will Brightline charge to use that station?
Might help if the airport goons offer to fix their mistakes at the intermodal facility and a few years of free use to Amtrak as the peace offering!!
 #1560953  by bostontrainguy
 
Backshophoss wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:10 pm Might help if the airport goons offer to fix their mistakes at the intermodal facility and a few years of free use to Amtrak as the peace offering!!
Trying to remember the details here. I kind of remember some talk about Amtrak never informing the architects about how long the platforms should be and maybe even approving the inadequate design. Whatever the reasons, the "airport goons" have fixed the most serious problem (trains blocking east-west road access). It seems more likely that Amtrak just doesn't want to do it.

I will tell you about my experience here and how I handled it. My wife and I completed a vacation in Miami a few years ago. I dropped her and our luggage at the Amtrak Hialeah station and drove our rental car back to the airport. From there I took a Tri-Rail train to the Metro-Rail Transfer Station just south of the Amtrak Station. It was a very short walk through a small industrial area that wasn't all that pleasant but very doable. The schedule actually worked perfectly that day for me.
 #1560955  by electricron
 
Amtrak long distance trains going to Miami are not double headed like Brightline trains, nor do their long distance trains have cabs opposite the locomotive like TriRail trains. So an Amtrak train would have to reverse at very slow speeds for miles to turn around. I doubt FEC would allow that.
 #1560963  by bostontrainguy
 
electricron wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:19 pm Amtrak long distance trains going to Miami are not double headed like Brightline trains, nor do their long distance trains have cabs opposite the locomotive like TriRail trains. So an Amtrak train would have to reverse at very slow speeds for miles to turn around. I doubt FEC would allow that.
Silver Star does it all the time approaching Tampa.
 #1560965  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Train Guy, I admit I'm looking at this discussion from an operational efficiency perspective, as I hold that Amtrak has given up on promoting the LD trains, and that their time is done.

You are looking at the perspective as to how make the LD attractive so that someone, such as a Critter or two, will seek to expand the services - and restore Daily frequencies and Full Service Dining.

Now so far as backing trains into Downtown Miami from Hialeah. Yes, the SAL "did it all the time" to their station at 7th Ave and 22th St NW, but that was on their own rails.

Here you are asking Amtrak to back trains over the FEC - a road with which has no obligation whatever to handle Amtrak. Good luck on that!

Again, "just stay put".
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1560991  by bostontrainguy
 
Can't be sure but since we are discussing the Miami Airport station electricron may have been talking about backing a train from the Miami Airport station to Hialeah which is CSX. Downtown Miami is a long way from Hialeah.

Also ironically when they rebuilt the airport station to serve Amtrak better, by building the bypass road, they disconnected an available wye that was there.
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