RAILROAD.NET

DutchRailnut wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:19 pm I was answering a question previous poster , sorry if I stepped on any of your opinions.

>>>>> Is there any value to the HHP's as an export product?<<<<<

It does impact the FMV at the end of term. If there is no market for them anywhere, the FMV is scrap value anyway so if Amtrak returns them in terrible condition, PMCC's "loss" due to Amtrak's failure to maintain is less.

Amtrak's failure to maintain affects the market for reuse: say one is still operable, the rest are all cannibalized, nobody is going to want to buy just one, but if they were all running there might be a market. I was confused; I assumed the parts were canibalized to keep the HHP8's going - that wouldn't have caused liability since Amtrak was just doing their best without supplier support.

I like the suggestion of returning the parts borrowed from the Acelas - will they be available before the HHP8 lease expires? I suppose if they break in Acela service they can return those exact broken parts and that would be "good enough" - unless parts break faster on Acela than HHPs.

Reminds me of a friend who bought a sharp looking Daewoo. The door handle broke under warrantee, but no parts were available since they had discontinued manufacturing, so it didn't get fixed.

If the Alstom-Bombardier rail merger is cleared, then both halves of the Acela-HHP intellectual property will reside in the same outfit, I believe?

But it will also own the ALP46/45 and Multilevel/MLEMU designs/product lines...

This also means Alstrom will have MARC operations on CSX lines, as well as repair/maintenance operations of MARC equipment (as well as other places Bombardier has contracts with).

This merger is not a done deal,figure on EU objections,UK concerns.

It just went one step (and $8.2 billion in cash and stock) closer:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/17/bombard ... -deal.html

Backshophoss wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:56 am This merger is not a done deal,figure on EU objections,UK concerns.

Unlikely. This is an EU company (Alstom, France) buying a component of a North American conglomerate (Bombardier, Canada). They operate in a core segment of European technology (high speed passenger rail). There are absolutely zero intra-EU competitive implications here as long as Siemens and Hitachi Rail Italy (formerly Ansaldo Breda) are around.

Consider also that the Euros are scared pantsless that the Chinese are catching up to them in the passenger train market. By car numbers, the Chinese have surpassed them quite a bit. It's a crummy inferior product, but that can change. Right now the Chinese are doing a bad job of assembling others' components, like MTU and Cat prime movers, Siemens and Mitsubishi propulsion packages, etc... and they're missing some important stuff. But you build so many thousands of cars, and you get better... They have a domestic prime mover and propulsion, and they'll sell it to us when it gets better.

They're also know for low-balling bid jobs to put others out of business. Then they loan the money to buy the cars, then they show up with terribly inferior product.

Oh by the way, you still owe us for that junk...

Check out this picture linked below. It's Escalada, the biggest Argentine backshop in the country. It's in the south suburbs of Buenos Aires. This pic is about 1/5 of the entire place. Its like a Beech Grove but twice the size.

The blue cars in the center are all MU's in a dead line or seriously broken. They're all 2013 build date. That sucks. The prior Toshiba cars lasted from 1980 and some are still running. https://www.railpictures.net/photo/721418/

Looks like the Argentines got what they paid for.

The ACS-64s might crap out easily but at least they also go back into service. No deadlines of Sprinters here.

Exactly right .
I think I may have posted this before , but I had a discussion with a Chinese solar hot water panel manufacturer.
He said there were around 3000 manufacturers in China.
2000 of them produce outright crap , sold to peasants , for next to nothing. they leak etc ,but are cheap.
900 of them produce a reasonable product , but not up to western standards.
around 90 produce a product that is equal to the western product.
10 produce a product superior to Western product, one considered to be the best in the world. ( not his).
So you can buy a solar panel for $ 100 , or $ 2000 from China, you can guess which ones are been imported by lower end importers , and the quality you can expect.
Generally, The manufacturer will produce to the price expected, they are not going to go cheaper if they think they can get more.

But we are getting off topic for HHP8 which is also imported technology.

Moderator Edit: BandA is correct, get back to HHP-8s

How well would the HHP-8s handle freight service? I recall from their use on the circus trains that they seemed to be considered reliable in that application.

I'm wondering if one of the freight operators on the NEC might bite ... (or maybe just nibble).

gokeefe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:51 pm How well would the HHP-8s handle freight service? I recall from their use on the circus trains that they seemed to be considered reliable in that application.

I'm wondering if one of the freight operators on the NEC might bite ... (or maybe just nibble).

Very very poorly. They're already known as unreliable locomotives and they're fairly light. They usually try to ballast freight locos close to 71,500 lbs per axle and the Hippos are only 55,500 lbs/axle. They even weigh less than a GP40-2.

And where would you use them? Where is there a freight that stays entirely on the NEC from yard to customer? Nearly all NEC freights traverse diesel trackage.

All of the wire that was on freight trackage is long gone when CR stopped using motors to move freight.
There's very little left to reach Bear and Wilmington shops

Unless MARC decides to buy into them, these things are most likely going to follow the Acela’s into a scrap yard and should!