• Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by eolesen
 
Get it done without regard to the cost is exactly what's happened in California with their High-Speed Rail project.

Just because something is important doesn't mean it needs to be mismanaged.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  by lensovet
 
west point wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:44 am What is the hold up for the actual tunnel work? I would think that the ventilation shafts could be started now?
I mean things take time no? Are they even done with engineering work?

That and funding.
  by Jeff Smith
 
https://jerseydigs.com/amtrak-bergen-lo ... y-project/

A good summation of the project at least:
Amtrak’s Gateway Program Could Be an Economic Boon to the Meadowlands
...
The so-called Gateway Program involves a series of upgrades to the narrow, ten-mile corridor between Newark and New York. It includes increasing the number of tracks from two to four, building a new tunnel beneath the Hudson River, and rerouting Hoboken-bound trains directly into Manhattan via a massive circular track called the Bergen Loop. It would also simplify the commutes for riders along the Main, Bergen County, Pascack Valley, and Port Jervis lines.
...
However, Kirkos told Jersey Digs he supports the Gateway Program but wants Amtrak to add a stop at Secaucus Junction, making it easier for out-of-state visitors to spend time at the Meadowlands and the American Dream mall. Perhaps in the future, Amtrak passengers could then access the Meadowlands by way of one of the Department of Transportation’s bus rapid transit service, Kirkos said.

A study published by Hunden Strategy Partners recently forecasted that a newly built hotel and convention center at the former Izod Center could earn billions in revenue.

Secaucus, a small town of 20,000 residents surrounded by swamplands may seem like a strange place to concentrate transportation infrastructure. But that precise location is where the region’s nexus of train tracks meet. The Bergen Loop would finally give the crisscrossing tracks a long overdue connection, Craig Schulz, director of external affairs, told Jersey Digs. “Once we expand the capacity at Penn Station, we’ll be able to provide a route that we can’t currently accommodate.”
...
  by lensovet
 
We need faster trains, not more stops. Some Regionals already stop at Newark, the airport, metro park, New Brunswick, Princeton, and Trenton. Now they want Secaucus in there too?

The loop is insane. I don’t understand where it’s supposed to go or how it will ever be faster than a properly timed transfer across platforms. And why on earth does the station need to exist at that point?
  by ExCon90
 
And it's not a transfer across platforms. It's one line (NEC) crossing over another (Hoboken lines), at 90 deg. with not enough vertical space between them for a mezzanine. All passengers transferring must walk to the point of intersection, then go up two levels and down one, going through fare gates in the process -- doing that twice a day could get old. The loop would provide a one-seat ride instead, albeit going through the platforms of both levels in sequence, but with commuters tiptapping on a keyboard the whole way instead of making that awkward transfer. The station is where it is because it's the only place common to both routes.
  by daybeers
 
lensovet wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:14 am We need faster trains, not more stops. Some Regionals already stop at Newark, the airport, metro park, New Brunswick, Princeton, and Trenton. Now they want Secaucus in there too?
100% agree, and IMO Princeton Junction and New Brunswick should probably be skipped anyway.
  by lensovet
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:34 am Three NJ Transit lines can only go to Hoboken. They built the Secaucus to do the transfer straight to NYC w/o having to transfer to PATH or a ferry.
I know why they built it. I was asking what purpose the station would serve once the pointless loop is built.
  by lensovet
 
ExCon90 wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:41 pm And it's not a transfer across platforms. It's one line (NEC) crossing over another (Hoboken lines), at 90 deg. with not enough vertical space between them for a mezzanine. All passengers transferring must walk to the point of intersection, then go up two levels and down one, going through fare gates in the process -- doing that twice a day could get old. The loop would provide a one-seat ride instead, albeit going through the platforms of both levels in sequence, but with commuters tiptapping on a keyboard the whole way instead of making that awkward transfer. The station is where it is because it's the only place common to both routes.
For crying out loud, I've both used the station and transited through it multiple times a week at one point. I know how it works. Fix the transfer, it will be a lot cheaper and more useful than building this loop.

Speaking of tapping away on their keyboards, are we going to shut down Hoboken once this is built? Because there sure as hell won't be enough commuters to justify keeping current Hoboken service levels AND also add more trains to run into Penn without a transfer.
  by andegold
 
daybeers wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:04 am
lensovet wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:14 am We need faster trains, not more stops. Some Regionals already stop at Newark, the airport, metro park, New Brunswick, Princeton, and Trenton. Now they want Secaucus in there too?
100% agree, and IMO Princeton Junction and New Brunswick should probably be skipped anyway.
Princeton Junction (Princeton via the Dinky) and New Brunswick are both college towns hosting national research universities, hospitals and Fortune 500 corporate offices and even headquarters. What they need is consistent, or even more, service. Not less.
  by STrRedWolf
 
lensovet wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:40 pm For crying out loud, I've both used the station and transited through it multiple times a week at one point. I know how it works. Fix the transfer, it will be a lot cheaper and more useful than building this loop.

Speaking of tapping away on their keyboards, are we going to shut down Hoboken once this is built? Because there sure as hell won't be enough commuters to justify keeping current Hoboken service levels AND also add more trains to run into Penn without a transfer.
Lets drop this all into perspective here.

First, the three(four) lines all are diesel. Unless you electrify all of them, they not going to go to Penn. They're going to Hoboken.

Second, from what I've seen, the loop is going to be just one track (no fly-overs/unders), it'll hit Secaucus Junction twice, and it's operation in the grand scheme of things will be complicated at best for any reasonable service. To be honest, I would think this would be more of a one-seat ride into Meadowlands, considering what's all going on over there.

Third, you still have what will happen after Gateway is built: 3 tubes at a time and I heard maybe some speed limits on the new tubes while they reconstruct the originals.

Put together, the loop isn't quite worth it in the next few years. A lot of things have to happen on the Main/Bergen/Pascack/Meadowlands to make it worth while.
andegold wrote: Princeton Junction (Princeton via the Dinky) and New Brunswick are both college towns hosting national research universities, hospitals and Fortune 500 corporate offices and even headquarters. What they need is consistent, or even more, service. Not less.
But how frequent are they being served by NJ Transit? Amtrak's not the only one stopping there.
  by Red Wing
 
Amtrak is buying duel modes so they don't have to electrify the Springfield line. NJT could do the same and then those 3 lines could go to Penn. :wink:
  by STrRedWolf
 
Just to update, I did do a bit more digging and saw it was going to have two tracks and flyovers... but the space available forces the double-stop.

That just cuts it down to how much capacity we will have. I don't see the loop being worth it in the next 10-20 years.
  by andegold
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:36 am
lensovet wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:40 pm For crying out loud, I've both used the station and transited through it multiple times a week at one point. I know how it works. Fix the transfer, it will be a lot cheaper and more useful than building this loop.

Speaking of tapping away on their keyboards, are we going to shut down Hoboken once this is built? Because there sure as hell won't be enough commuters to justify keeping current Hoboken service levels AND also add more trains to run into Penn without a transfer.
Lets drop this all into perspective here.

First, the three(four) lines all are diesel. Unless you electrify all of them, they not going to go to Penn. They're going to Hoboken.

Second, from what I've seen, the loop is going to be just one track (no fly-overs/unders), it'll hit Secaucus Junction twice, and it's operation in the grand scheme of things will be complicated at best for any reasonable service. To be honest, I would think this would be more of a one-seat ride into Meadowlands, considering what's all going on over there.

Third, you still have what will happen after Gateway is built: 3 tubes at a time and I heard maybe some speed limits on the new tubes while they reconstruct the originals.

Put together, the loop isn't quite worth it in the next few years. A lot of things have to happen on the Main/Bergen/Pascack/Meadowlands to make it worth while.
andegold wrote: Princeton Junction (Princeton via the Dinky) and New Brunswick are both college towns hosting national research universities, hospitals and Fortune 500 corporate offices and even headquarters. What they need is consistent, or even more, service. Not less.
But how frequent are they being served by NJ Transit? Amtrak's not the only one stopping there.
Yes, there is plentiful NJT service. That doesn't change the fact that there are, and could be more, non-NJT customers that would like to use those stations without having to make poorly timed transfers at Trenton or Newark which would both (rightfully or not) be considered rather distasteful to anyone not from the area.
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