Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

Business class passengers on the Coast Starlight May now purchase dining car meal packages as part of a pilot to possibly eventually open it up to general coach passengers. Breakfast is offered for $20, lunch for $25 and the three course dinner for $45. All meals include soft beverages. Lunch includes dessert and the dinner includes the first alcoholic beverage and dessert. Business class passengers interested must go to the dining car to make their reservation when indicated by the LSA - Diner and pay for the meal before the crew begins meal service. Additional alcoholic beverages may be purchased at the meal like with sleeping car passengers but payment for the meal package must be made when making a reservation. Some are complaining about the pricing and the fact they aren’t offering a la carte pricing, but I think this pricing is appropriate. Coach seats are heavily subsidized on LD trains and if coach passengers want access to the amenities that premium passengers who are paying $1000+ get they should pay a market based rate for the meals. If one wants an a la carte meal the cafe car is always available.

Don't forget that the highlight of Cafe cars is nuke greaseburgers. Unless the selection is expanded on LD trains.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:24 pm No idea if they still do it, but Holiday Inn in Dusseldorf had a great breakfast buffet 6 days a week, and an even better one on Sundays.

Obviously you can't do anything big in a dining car, but can a decent one be done? Safely? Obviously the quality of track and the suspension system of the dining car are part of what affects it.

Breakfast: Scrambled eggs, sliced ham, bacon, potatoes, sausage on the hot line (mostly pre-made). Toast, pancakes, waffles on demand. Pastries, cheese, salsa, flour or corn tortilla, yogurt, cereal bowls & milk bottles/boxes. Juice, tea, coffee. If there's handling issues, you have wait staff container the food as they order. Build your own breakfast tortilla!

Lunch... I can't see what a good simple spread could be. And I'd rather have a fancier dinner with a beer.

urr304 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:53 pm Another thing that stinks is that dining service is restricted to sleeping car passengers. Coach passengers should be allowed to eat in the dining car. Pretty hard to justify 'essential service' if those in coach can't get nothing except sandwiches all the way from Chicago to the West Coast. In the pre-Amtrak days, even the 'Limiteds' that had coach service had full dining service for the plebian passengers. How does a tax supported service get off?

Here is a link to long distance Cafe menus...
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/proj ... u-1020.pdf
Prices seem fair to me for a budget minded traveler.

Waffle House woulkd give better choices, respectively. I like all of you, Happy New Year. Perhaps some bright heads in the New Year will get their collective acts together.

urr304 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:43 pm Waffle House woulkd give better choices, respectively. I like all of you, Happy New Year. Perhaps some bright heads in the New Year will get their collective acts together.

Really? Waffle House menu lunch and dinner
https://www.wafflehouse.com/lunch-and-d ... ritionals/
Breakfast
https://www.wafflehouse.com/breakfast-nutritionals/

And Waffle House has one to two short order cooks to cook the menu and one to two waitresses servicing the customers while Amtrak has one attendant in the cafe doing everything. Considering the differences in the number of laborers, Amtrak is not providing that bad a service at all.

Waffle House is great. And most of the time, it's one cook one waitress, with your food in front of you in less than five minutes...

Years ago when I was still a programmer, they used to have a great deal for around 6 bucks all you can eat. I bring my laptop and code for 3 and 4 hours and eat for the day....

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urr304 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:53 pm Another thing that stinks is that dining service is restricted to sleeping car passengers. Coach passengers should be allowed to eat in the dining car. Pretty hard to justify 'essential service' if those in coach can't get nothing except sandwiches all the way from Chicago to the West Coast. In the pre-Amtrak days, even the 'Limiteds' that had coach service had full dining service for the plebian passengers. How does a tax supported service get off?

Because the premium passengers are paying for it. They’ll probably open it up to coach eventually (they’re trialing it in business on the starlight) but then people will complain (already are) that it’s flat pricing for an all-inclusive meal and that the prices are too high. Essential service means basic transportation. Coach fares on LDTs are HEAVILY subsidized and very reasonable. You’re already getting transportation for way less than what it’s costing for your seat - essential service. Sleeper passengers are paying that same fare plus a premium that is more market based to access premium amenities of which the dining car is one. I’m not against coach access to the dining car - but it’s a premium amenity - if you aren’t paying for it in your ticket you should pay an appropriate cost for meals. While some on some of the boards are complaining about the prices on the starlight and that they aren’t running the dining car the way they did before with a larger priced menu - from what I’ve heard business passengers partaking of the meals on the starlight has been good. Personally I think $45 for an all inclusive three course dinner with dessert and alcoholic beverage is not a bad deal - and the presentation and food quality is well above what they were doing before.

I think they feel that the tax payers shouldn’t be paying for steak dinners - the people on the train eating those meals should be. I have absolutely no objection to them charging market based sleeper fares and doing revenue management to try to make the sleeper service and dining car as self sufficient as possible. I understand that laws do not require a break even on food service - but it’s still appropriate for them to at least try to run it like a business as opposed to free steak for everyone.

electricron wrote: Here is a link to long distance Cafe menus...
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/proj ... u-1020.pdf
Prices seem fair to me for a budget minded traveler.

electricron wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:49 pm

urr304 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:43 pm Waffle House woulkd give better choices, respectively. I like all of you, Happy New Year. Perhaps some bright heads in the New Year will get their collective acts together.

Really? Waffle House menu lunch and dinner
https://www.wafflehouse.com/lunch-and-d ... ritionals/
Breakfast
https://www.wafflehouse.com/breakfast-nutritionals/

And Waffle House has one to two short order cooks to cook the menu and one to two waitresses servicing the customers while Amtrak has one attendant in the cafe doing everything. Considering the differences in the number of laborers, Amtrak is not providing that bad a service at all.

I think this is a bad comparison.

Waffle House is "Good Food Fast" and never closes (if it does, the entire area's had something very bad happen). It's where you can get a flat-iron steak and eggs over easy at 2am. It's where you can slather a waffle with syrup and margarine and nobody would bat an eye. It's where you can't find french fries, but your hash browns are made from scratch.

Amtrak's cafe doesn't have a grill or even a stove. It has two microwaves, two coffee brewers, a ton of refrigerator compartments, maybe a sink, and a staff member who's definitely not going to say "Thank you, come again." The better comparison is 7-Eleven... and even then, the latter I think has a better burger.

Now if Amtrak wants to (it won't), they could make a "dinette" car that lets you do a Waffle House style menu... and you wouldn't need much: Hamburger buns, Texas toast bread, regular bread, eggs, hash browns, ham (steak and cubed), bacon, hamburger patties, chicken patties, chicken breasts, pork chops, t-bone steaks, sirloin steaks, salad fixings, cheese, waffle mix, water, coffee, tea, soft drinks, milk, juice, premade chili, premade deserts. That's it, charge market rates at the table.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:38 pm Now if Amtrak wants to (it won't), they could make a "dinette" car that lets you do a Waffle House style menu... and you wouldn't need much: Hamburger buns, Texas toast bread, regular bread, eggs, hash browns, ham (steak and cubed), bacon, hamburger patties, chicken patties, chicken breasts, pork chops, t-bone steaks, sirloin steaks, salad fixings, cheese, waffle mix, water, coffee, tea, soft drinks, milk, juice, premade chili, premade deserts. That's it, charge market rates at the table.

Yes, just what Amtrak provides in the dining car for first class passengers only!
There is no way Amtrak could provide better services with a one person cafe operation than a 7-11 store services.

Maybe they already do, but Amtrak should study European bistro cars (vs. restaurant cars) for day trains and “quick” overnight trains (think Night Owl—I know they’re not using the name—not the Crescent). Good quality beer and wine, paired with acceptable food choices. Might be the acceptable balance of quality and cost.

electricron wrote:

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:38 pm Now if Amtrak wants to (it won't), they could make a "dinette" car that lets you do a Waffle House style menu... and you wouldn't need much: Hamburger buns, Texas toast bread, regular bread, eggs, hash browns, ham (steak and cubed), bacon, hamburger patties, chicken patties, chicken breasts, pork chops, t-bone steaks, sirloin steaks, salad fixings, cheese, waffle mix, water, coffee, tea, soft drinks, milk, juice, premade chili, premade deserts. That's it, charge market rates at the table.

Yes, just what Amtrak provides in the dining car for first class passengers only!
There is no way Amtrak could provide better services with a one person cafe operation than a 7-11 store services.

No. Amtrak styles itself as better than Waffle House. Look at their menu for Acela first class and any of the LD trains. Dedicated offerings firmly detailed, more on par with a higher-end restaurant. No, this isn't Denny's or Bob Evans or any of that ilk. This isn't your pub-grub special. This is more towards the "You need to dress up" spectrum.

Station Aficionado wrote:Maybe they already do, but Amtrak should study European bistro cars (vs. restaurant cars) for day trains and “quick” overnight trains (think Night Owl—I know they’re not using the name—not the Crescent). Good quality beer and wine, paired with acceptable food choices. Might be the acceptable balance of quality and cost.

This is what I'm getting at. I would love to grab an actual breakfast or dinner on the Pennsy, even if it's boxed up. Swap Bud for Yengling (regional brew). Have a line cook grill stuff up and an attendant help plate into a paper-foam container. The Night Owl can do the same, but cycling local brews. If it take 8 hours, have this style of dinette.

...and now we're getting off-track of the thread. Lovely.

The boxes snack boxes Airlines are selling in coach these days are pretty good:

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/t ... /menu.html


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Give me freshly cooked food over a nuked meal any day!

Ahhh back on track on the right thread.

Tom V wrote:The boxes snack boxes Airlines are selling in coach these days are pretty good:

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/t ... /menu.html

Yeah, that's Amtrak cafe food, if you page through the menu... but you got a lot less.

John_Perkowski wrote:Give me freshly cooked food over a nuked meal any day!

Agreed!