Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

Electricron wrote:

Thanks for the link about a test on a Superliner diner on a train, the Sunset Limited, that runs just 3 days a week per direction performed in 1999 when the Sunset Limited ran from Los Angeles all the way to Orlando.

I my be mistaken, but the Sunset ran 7 days a week in 1999.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:27 pm

electricron wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:14 am Name the train where increasing food service hours actually increased profits? I ask because I can not find this experiment anywhere, so I need your help. Repeating an undocumented fact a hundred, thousand, million, or a billion times does not make it true.

Relax electricron . . . here you go:
https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/in ... f-the-fun/

To me that would be perfect for a LD train.

electricron wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:11 pm

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:27 pm Relax electricron . . . here you go:
https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/in ... f-the-fun/

Thanks for the link about a test on a Superliner diner on a train, the Sunset Limited, that runs just 3 days a week per direction performed in 1999 when the Sunset Limited ran from Los Angeles all the way to Orlando.
At the time the Superliner diner was manned with 9 staff, and only required 2 more staff to allow 24 hours a day service, although still not 7 days a week. Superliner diners are not so well manned today. So a new test should probably be done with staffing levels common today.
Is there enough room in a Viewliner diner to staff 9 to 11 personnel?

9 crew for a diner seems a bit high. I did some searching and found in 2001 it was only 5: LSA, chef, food specialist, 2 servers. Richardson's article was based on 1999 numbers but mentioned that dishes were still washed. Still I can't see why they had 3 food specialists and 4 servers. Something seems off on those numbers.

WhartonAndNorthern wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:48 am On the "train and engine service" side, they carry an engineer, a conductor and an assistant conductor. FRA mandates 12 hours maximum hours on duty, but those hours can include prep work at the terminal. Amtrak's union contract says 2 engineers must be assigned to a route segment that exceeds 6 hours between recrews. So sometimes engineers and conductors change at different bases to avoid a second engineer and sometimes they run with a second engineer. Some Amtrak crew bases like the Fort Madison engineer base are strictly "away" bases. FRA rules require crew rest "away from the noise of the railroad" so hotels or company lodging, not sleeping cars.

Great, I'll have to get a waiver for that in my next novel... can do the 12 hours but the "away" requirement... ugh.

The onboard service staff remain with the train for the duration.
The lounge car gets a lead service attendant. He/she gets to sleep when the lounge is closed so roughly 11 pm to 6AM.
A fully staffed dining car has a chef, assistant, waiter and a lead service attendant who signs for the food at the commissary and handles the cash. The assistant and the waiter are members of the "service attendant" craft.
Each sleeper gets a car attendant and I believe each coach or every other coach is assigned a car attendant who assign seats and hand out pillows. Only the conductors check tickets. At least one coach attendant and one sleeper attendant is awake during the overnight as passengers do come and go at stops during the overnight.

My opinion: I would double up the diner crew, and triple up the lounge LSA. Keep the snack bar open (maybe flex dining from here?)

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:46 pm

WhartonAndNorthern wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:48 am On the "train and engine service" side, they carry an engineer, a conductor and an assistant conductor. FRA mandates 12 hours maximum hours on duty, but those hours can include prep work at the terminal. Amtrak's union contract says 2 engineers must be assigned to a route segment that exceeds 6 hours between recrews. So sometimes engineers and conductors change at different bases to avoid a second engineer and sometimes they run with a second engineer. Some Amtrak crew bases like the Fort Madison engineer base are strictly "away" bases. FRA rules require crew rest "away from the noise of the railroad" so hotels or company lodging, not sleeping cars.

Great, I'll have to get a waiver for that in my next novel... can do the 12 hours but the "away" requirement... ugh.

The onboard service staff remain with the train for the duration.
The lounge car gets a lead service attendant. He/she gets to sleep when the lounge is closed so roughly 11 pm to 6AM.
A fully staffed dining car has a chef, assistant, waiter and a lead service attendant who signs for the food at the commissary and handles the cash. The assistant and the waiter are members of the "service attendant" craft.
Each sleeper gets a car attendant and I believe each coach or every other coach is assigned a car attendant who assign seats and hand out pillows. Only the conductors check tickets. At least one coach attendant and one sleeper attendant is awake during the overnight as passengers do come and go at stops during the overnight.

My opinion: I would double up the diner crew, and triple up the lounge LSA. Keep the snack bar open (maybe flex dining from here?)

Middle of the night dining can be simpler, fewer selections.

I think Viewliner II diners operated with a crew of 3 pre flex dining - chef, LSA, server. Less sleeping car rooms and tables in the diner so doesn’t need as much as a Superliner diner.

Extra crew don't need to be pn for the entire run . For e.g, , a extra LSA could work the Chief from Kansas City to Galesburg Eastbound , switch to the Westbound , Back to Kansas city same day , albeit a long day .

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:41 pm I think Viewliner II diners operated with a crew of 3 pre flex dining - chef, LSA, server. Less sleeping car rooms and tables in the diner so doesn’t need as much as a Superliner diner.

When I took my trip out west this summer I took the LSL from NYC to Chicago and came back on it a week later. There was only one person working the VII diner on both trains. He nuked the flex stuff and delivered it to the tables or to the sleeper car attendants waiting to bring it to people eating in their roomettes. Needless to say one had to wait up to 1/2 hr. before getting your meal

You waited up to 30 minutes to get your flex meal??? When ordering and staying in the Viewliner II Diner??? I think that would be an anomaly.......Being on the Capitol Limited, Lake Shore, or Silver Meteor, I never waited more than 10 minutes to get my "flex meal" - when it was just one person in the Viewliner II Diner. Even on the trains "west of the Mississippi" when they were doing flex meals - same deal. It didn't take the LSA long at all after I sat down to come and take my order, and then prep it, as most meals were already heated prior to the start of the meal service. VERY surprised to hear that based on what I experienced.

Here’s my continuing point.

In January, if I take a run on 3-4 to Chicago, I’m paying $220+ each way for an enclosed section or double slumbercoach … err, roomette in the current lexicon.

I’m going to get a nuked burger for lunch, and a chuck steak for supper.

$57 was the basic coach seat quote. So, a goodly portion of $160 covers my food.

For $100, I can get a damn good piece of sirloin strip with a nice Cabernet at James Beard award winning restaurants.

Amtrak is doing itself no favors right now, especially with 2+2 bench seating.

I took the Silver Star and Silver Meteor pretty much yearly from the mid '80s through mid '90s from New Jersey to Florida (Tampa). I remember the buffet cars worked pretty well, I only remember dinner using the buffet I don't remember having lunch or breakfast. Is there any savings by using the buffet, at least for dinner? People can either take their tray and sit down in the diner or take it back to their seats in coach or their roomette.

Mr. Volpini, lest we remember that in those Buffet Cars, an Amtrak employee would handle your tray after you took it through the chow line and paid up. The potential liability from a passenger dropping their chow on another would be too great.

Right, if you are eating in the diner someone will follow you to the table with the tray. If you are going to eat in your roomette, coach seat or even the lounge you can get a to go container in a bag.

The only issue would be keeping the coach cars clean.

A buffet breakfast and dinner have been done rather nicely. I remember when at the yearly convention at Pittsburgh I stayed at a new hotel, the Drury, built in the old Federal Reserve building. They offered free buffet breakfast and dinner. It wasn't much to write about, but it did the job for the seven days of my stay.

No idea if they still do it, but Holiday Inn in Dusseldorf had a great breakfast buffet 6 days a week, and an even better one on Sundays.

Obviously you can't do anything big in a dining car, but can a decent one be done? Safely? Obviously the quality of track and the suspension system of the dining car are part of what affects it.