Amtrak combining the Silver Star and Capitol Limited (a new Floridian?)

Just looking at the existing schedules, Miami to Chicago passengers have three routes to Chicago (Silver Meteor -> Cardinal/Capitol Limited/Lake Shore Limited) with no overnight layovers (all within 2 scheduled hours total trip time), and all that will change with the Floridian is that they now have a later departure or earlier arrival at Miami (this is true of all stations served by both the Silver Meteor and Silver Star south of Washington VA -- an existing connection changes into a through train).

The new travel possibilities this schedule allows without requiring an overnight layover are between Raleigh/Cary/Southern Pines/Hamlet/Camden/Columbia/Denmark (stops on the Silver Star in NC and SC not on the Silver Meteor) and Chicago/South Bend/Elkhart/Waterloo/Toledo/Sandusky/Elyria/Cleveland/Alliance/Pittsburgh/Connellsville/Cumberland/Martinsburg/Harpers Ferry.

I know at least one passenger (my father) who is thrilled to have this option to travel between Raleigh (where he lives) and Cleveland (where his brother lives) as a 2:30 AM station time on a train is still easier for him than flying (he needs a wheelchair on a plane but can use a cane on a train) and he can't drive.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 3:50 pm The Palmetto and the Pennsylvanian also use 4 x Amfleet 2 coaches each.

The Pennsylvanian is using 5 Amfleet IIs until at least November

realtype wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:36 pm True, but are there a significant number of passengers that will actually travel through WAS?

I think this new combined route structure ironically hurts the competitiveness of both trains, in no small part because delays are sure to cascade from one segment to the other. Passengers that travel from Cleveland to Chicago on the Cap. Ltd. will face an additional layer of delays occurring on the Miami to DC segment (and vise versa).

Even if we assume 100% OTP, there's still the fact that this is by far the longest duration trip on (or connecting to) the East Coast and will be impractical for most passengers travelling between the Great Lakes and Southeast. Something I read online was claiming that even flying from Ohio to Florida (albeit probably with a LCC or a basic econ fare class on AA/UA/DL) would be significantly cheaper, which sounds plausible.

Only Amtrak has access to the ticketing information to answer that question with any accuracy.
As for the train losing time, most long distance trains do. When the Sunset Limited is a few hours late traveling east, they will hold the Texas Eagle in San Antonio for that connection to be made. If more than a few hours late, they will let the Texas Eagle to depart on time and bus transferring passengers as far as Longview to catch the Texas Eagle, and to interim stations in between. With the transfers in DC today, that is not done. At least with the continuance of the same train, that question is moot. A late train will be a late train.
The length of trains and travel times is just as bad between Chicago and DC, NYC to Miami, and Chicago and Miami vs plane travel to Miami. The planes win easily. But not everyone rides the entire way, usually less than 2% do on Acela between Boston and DC.
Surf to this web site that posted all the Amtrak trains ridership - distance percentages from pre-covid years.
https://narprail.org/resources/ridershi ... hip%20data
The Rail Passengers Association is not an anti-Amtrak web site.
Here's a link for Acela
https://narprail.org/site/assets/files/3480/1.pdf
Here's a link for Silver Star
https://narprail.org/site/assets/files/3458/16.pdf
Here's a link for Capital Limited
https://narprail.org/site/assets/files/3445/26.pdf
Capital Limited over 700 miles 25%. 200-299 miles 17%, and 400-499 miles 17%
Silver Star over 1000 miles 16%. 200-299 miles 24%
Acela over 400 miles 2% . 200-299 miles 78%
Miami to Chicago will be 1191 miles
At most the Floridian will be 200 miles further to travel than the Silver Star to New York City.

As for the Silver Meteor being fully booked sooner, hopefully Amtrak could find a few additional coaches and sleepers to make that train longer. They'll probably would have to use some from the reserve fleet to do so. But passengers should be able to book a trip between points north of DC to points south of DC, even at last on coach only trains.

I now wonder what is the "snowbird" population in the Midwest (Pittsburgh/Cleveland/Chicago) versus New England and NY/NJ/Phila?

Slightly off-topic but it’ll get there. I read elsewhere someone saying he didn’t know how Amtrak would deal with a late-arriving Texas Eagle in San Antonio in relation to the new Sunset limited car handoff, because it hadn’t been late enough. Sure enough, I checked and while the April-August average was 1.5 hours late, and the median nearly an hour behind schedule, in the month of September (8/30-9/29) those numbers are 5 minutes late and 5 minutes early. Only 1 train was more than 1:20 late. Could Amtrak have worked out a new agreement with its hosts in order to be sure the car handoff could work? And if so,might they be working on something similar to make sure the Floridian works?

Mr. Ryan, it does not appear any potential issues with the Sunset and the Floridian are same. The Sunset at SAS (anyone care to guess to where Station Code SAM applied?) is only one of three stations at which consists are cut. In the case of the Floridian, what originates at CHI will operate through to MIA.

I await a trip report from one (probably Axel will find an intrepid reporter to do such) who has ridden Floridian "bumper post to bumper post".

Oh and finally, who might Axel be (hint: oft cited "clickbait" around here)?

I know the situations are different. The similarity is in a major operational change which creates the possibility of cascading fiasco at a different scale from before, which one might want to ensure against.

But I have no idea. It may just be weird luck that the SW-bound Eagle has been timely for the last month. And I didn't even check the Sunset going east. But then, it's cars could be tacked on the following day's Eagle, so it's not as dire as an Eagle missing its connection and the passengers having to wait 2-3 days for the next train.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:07 pm I now wonder what is the "snowbird" population in the Midwest (Pittsburgh/Cleveland/Chicago) versus New England and NY/NJ/Phila?

There is a lot, but as GBN and I both know, they drive the car down in the fall, keep it in Florida, then drive back in the spring. If they need to go back for granchildren birthdays or holidays, they fly on the cheap on Southwest. Retirees, even in the upper middle class, are on a fixed savings/income and can fly back for $400RT/person.

When typing this I checked southwest air - a month out, there are early Am flights at $400/person round trip. Five hours with layover.

Amtrak is $500/person in coach, $1600/person sleeper, 40 hours timing.

For a lot of folks, an 80 hour round trip and $1600/person IS a trip.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 5:54 am The thing is with the AutoTrain's Superliners is that they are built for the AutoTrain. Compare the sleepers used. So keep those separate from the regular pool out west. They're the exception.

That said, to the prediction... no, the Floridian will be around for a few years while the East River Tunnels are being worked on. The Capital Limited and Silver Star will be back, but don't be surprised if the Cap Limited goes single level from here on out. I doubt Amtrak will have enough SuperLiners again for some time.

Good point about the Auto Train Superliners, I forgot about that.

I really hope that you're right (well, except the part about the part about the Viewliners permanently on the Cap. Ltd.).

realtype wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:55 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 5:54 am That said, to the prediction... no, the Floridian will be around for a few years while the East River Tunnels are being worked on. The Capital Limited and Silver Star will be back, but don't be surprised if the Cap Limited goes single level from here on out. I doubt Amtrak will have enough SuperLiners again for some time.

I really hope that you're right (well, except the part about the part about the Viewliners permanently on the Cap. Ltd.).

It all depends on how many SuperLiners they can get back in service, which depends on how staffed up mechanical is in Beach Grove. They bought a few years this way, but I have my doubts.

It seems there is a backlog of superliners for various reasons that is logjammed in Beech due to labor shortages.

Are there contract shops that can handle this? Ontario Northland has one. Metro East? Even Metra KYD? There's got to be other resources, especially when the operation is completley hobbled.

Mr. Dunville, the guidelines for Contracting Out between the railroad industry and the Shop Crafts are (I think deliberately and has held such ever since I was in Labor Relations) vague. They were not delineated within any Agreement to which I had exposure.

Obviously, clearing wrecks requires specialized equipment and expertise. so that one is a no brainer.

Doing routine maintenance or routine trackwork, uh never!

Now a backlog of cars at a heavy repair shop which has the equipment to repair them, really Gray. The organizations will simply say "go hire some more people", and to which management will say "we're trying, we can't find them".

So which comes first; chicken or egg?

What is the status of Amtrak's request for the FRA waiver of the radio controlled crossing activator? If that waiver is approved then all those Superliner cars can go onto regular trains. However, that is if the cars are passenger worthy. There is no guarantee they are!

Basically what's left at Beech Grove for inactive Superliners are wreck repairs. The remaining cars that they stored during COVID that still need work are mostly Viewliner I sleepers and Horizon coaches and they have started to eat away at the Horizons. The Viewliner I work supposedly starts with the new fiscal year beginning (so today basically.) The last Superliner type that had stored cars was Transition sleepers and a couple of the "Snack Coaches" (coach on upper level cafe car on lower) but I believe they are through most if not all of those. All of this work of course also has to be fit between whatever periodic overhauls on the active equipment that they have to do this year.

Other factors impeding capacity since COVID:
1) The Montana Builder accident and Missouri Chief accident and Keenesburg Colorado accidents took cars out of service. Moorpark CA last year did as well but all the Superliners from that incident have re-entered service. Supposedly they have begun to work their way through the Keenesburg cars as well and a couple may be back in service now.
2) Amtrak is running more Sleepers on the Auto Train (9 during peak season) than they did pre pandemic as part of the strategy to make that train run in the black.
3) Superliners have been running on the CHI-CDL Corridor service since 2019 due to the CN shunting issues. The current rule requires 7 Superliners in the consist (combination of revenue and axle count.) That's really the big ticket thing that will unlock a bunch of capacity if they can get the shunt enhancer thing that's going to be installed on the Chargers approved. The City of New Orleans also has requires an axle count car in place of the diner that usually runs in the consist as lately they haven't had enough diners to equip it. I heard from a posting on another board that it is slated to get the Diner Lounge Cross Country Cafe cars off the Capitol Limited once the Floridian starts, so that axle count car will at least go away.
4) General bad order shop counts for most equipment types are higher than the pandemic not just due to labor but also importantly lead time for parts. This is the big issue driving poor availability of the SC44 Chargers owned by the Midwest states. The state owned units were not purchased with the same TSSSA contract that the Amtrak owned ones have (which VIA and Brightline's Chargers also have) - so the state Chargers in the Midwest, California, and Washington state are basically at the back of the line for Charger parts from Siemens and have no guarantees.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:51 pm So which comes first; chicken or egg?

The egg is management is making no effort to hire more persons for Beech. Only one or 2 openings in the last 6 months. It iss time to make all directors meetings open so we can learn the real skinny.