Amtrak Borealis: fka Empire Builder 2nd Daily Frequency Chicago - St Paul

No the Borealis runs with Horizon cars and there are no plans to change that in the near term. Minnesota is not part of the Midwest equipment pool. The Borealis uses Amtrak owned equipment only. Horizons and P42s mostly. If you see a Charger on the Borealis it will be an Amtrak owned ALC-42 not a state owned SC-44. Over the next few years as more state owned equipment and the Amtrak owned Airo sets come into service, the Horizon fleet will become the "expansion" fleet for starting new services. They will be what is used to startup Gulf Coast. If future corridors for front range, Duluth, etc. come to fruition they would also start off with Horizon equipment. Eventually replacing the Horizons would be later Airo options (or state owned equipment if a state elected to go that route.)

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 9:20 am How can there be 145 seats in a Gallery Car trailer when you're missing two full columns of seats on the upper level? What is the seat pitch between the Gallery cars and the Alstom's? Is it tighter on the older cars?

The difference in seating is where the cab itself and some electrical equipment boxes are located. There would otherwise be two seats mounted against the forward bulkhead (facing down the aisle), and three seats on each outer wall facing inward on each side.

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 10:07 am Minnesota is not part of the Midwest equipment pool. The Borealis uses Amtrak owned equipment only.

It wouldn't surprise me to see MN buy-in to the equipment pool the way that WI did a few years back.

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 2:41 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 9:20 am How can there be 145 seats in a Gallery Car trailer when you're missing two full columns of seats on the upper level? What is the seat pitch between the Gallery cars and the Alstom's? Is it tighter on the older cars?

The difference in seating is where the cab itself and some electrical equipment boxes are located. There would otherwise be two seats mounted against the forward bulkhead (facing down the aisle), and three seats on each outer wall facing inward on each side.

Try like for like. I'm comparing trailer to trailer. No cab.

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 2:43 pm

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 10:07 am Minnesota is not part of the Midwest equipment pool. The Borealis uses Amtrak owned equipment only.

It wouldn't surprise me to see MN buy-in to the equipment pool the way that WI did a few years back.

They very well may eventually but there’s probably not any rush especially with all the difficulties with the Midwest engines. If they opt to stay with Amtrak owned equipment they’d probably get Airo equipment eventually - though the Horizons probably have a few years left in them. One more near term change they probably will get is a P42C cabbage instead of running with two engines. Amtrak is converting the first batch of retired P42s to NPCUs. The seats on the Airo sets look from the concept art to be closer to Brightline’s seats than those on the Midwest cars.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 5:24 pm Try like for like. I'm comparing trailer to trailer. No cab.

Take it up in a more appropriate thread. We've side-tracked long enough here.

A couple of good articles on Borealis, profitability, and an additional frequency or additional coaches. I'll let others quote the portions from the links below to discuss their observations:

https://tcbmag.com/is-the-amtrak-boreal ... rofitable/

https://www.minnpost.com/twin-cities-bu ... uncertain/

Well, I must say, and I'm pleased to learn, that Minister (better not call him Dr,. lest I get benched around here for another week) Magliari's speil to the two TV journalists has foundation.

But what I'm at a loss to note is why, after spending all the $$$$ to facelift those Horizons, Amtrak could not have a fixed center armrest, defining "YOUR SPACE, MY SPACE". A reasonable compromise would have been for some seats to have the armrests, while others have not. This way the single traveler could have wishes granted and pairs could be a little "cuddly cuddly" if they choose.

Regarding the Twin Cities Business report, I'm pleased to note they recognize that additional frequencies, such as the MILW's "four a day" MKE-MSP until shortly before I hired on (they got the Afternoon Hi off) and the "two a day" that were still there on A-Day Eve, will be hard to come by. The additional frequency was a "condition of sorts" for CPKC, and, again, for MSP-Fargo is all about what Joel and Lisa say "what made the world go around" during the Weimar Republic - still remains the case today.

Interesting Borealis stats near the bottom of the link.
https://wisarp.wordpress.com/category/news/

The top gives November riders. Just under 20,000. Better than September but below average.

But deeper in, they give city pairs for September. Just under two thirds were traveling between the major cities - 4,200 St Paul-Chgo, 1,500 St Paul-Milwaukee and 4,200 Milwaukee-Chgo.

No other pairing reached 1,000. More than 90% of trips started or ended in a major city, with just 8% between two smaller cities/towns.

(Note because of the way they made the grid, big city pairs are listed twice so ignore those squares in the 2nd and 3rd columns.)

Actually if you add Milwaukee airport it’s 1,750 to St Paul and 5,000 to Chicago.

Of the others, Lacrosse was an endpoint for more than 1,700 trips. They don’t list out all small town pairs. The entire category was anout 1,400. I doubt Lacrosse had one fifth of them to get to 2,000, but they might be close.

Memo to DC:
IT IS A REALLY BAD THING TO DELAY A TRAIN FOUR HOURS TWENTY MILES FROM THE TERMINAL WHEN A SENIOR EDITOR OF A MAJOR US DAILY NEWSPAPER IS ABOARD

click here to read, and to see his flame post to X.

Brief, fair use quote:

One passenger, Chicago Tribune editor John Chase, took to X/Twitter to criticize Amtrak for "finger pointing about switching problems while nothing happens and 300 people stranded traveling for the holidays":

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-ne ... nt=rundown

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

Can anyone tell us what really happened?

Was it Amtrak switches that caused the problem?

Hastings MN would be Canadian Pacific trackage, too far for terminal property. That said we have no real idea other than what the crew told the passenger. It could’ve been a switch immediately in front of the train or one miles away that was hanging up an entire main.

https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot ... ctions.pdf

Wisconsin – Borealis Intercity Passenger Rail Service (Up to $38,629,295)

The proposed project was selected for the initiation of daily roundtrip Amtrak Borealis service from Chicago, IL, to Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN, which began operations in May 2024. The project will help support new service rollout efforts of the Borealis service, which fills schedule gaps between Amtrak Empire Builder trains, allowing for more flexible travel for urban and rural communities on the route. The project aligns with the selection criteria by fostering safe operations and mitigating the effects of climate change by reducing emissions and potential burdens that impact underserved/disadvantaged communities. R&E funding would support the balance of the second year of service, augmenting another R&E grant that supports the first year of service and part of the second year of service, as well as years of service 3 through 6. The states of Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois will provide the non-R&E funding share.