All Things Sunset Limited (West)

I've spent time on the entire length of the Sunset Eagle in three segments: Chicago-DFW; DFW-San Antonio-Tucson; and Tucson-LA. Once aboard, it's par for the course. The frustrating thing is trying to schedule business travel around the 3x/week Sunset. Not having daily service hampers the usefullness of the train.

That said, when the timing is right, the LA-Tucson service is brilliant. Have dinner, board the train, go to bed, wake up at destination. In either direction. I've done this perhaps 3-5 times and it's been great every time.

I also see Tucson-Phoenix as the next best Brightline candidate. The drive is two hours of the worst freeway drivers. The Tucson airport is super-overpriced. The space between is wide open, which leads to the real win - real estate development. 110 miles of wide open space with a generous UP right of way in place to build a new main on. You could set up 20 transit-oriented retirement developments. The service could run Phoenix (1.6m pop), Sky Harbor (120k pax/day), retirement developments 1-20, Tucson north side (500,000 pop), University of Arizona (32,000 students), Davis Monthan AFB (10,000 employees).

In my opinion, the best option for the Sunset is to scrap the current train, run some sort of Texas corridor service, and run a Brightline PHX-TUS service with a nightly sleeper to LA. Imagine how impactful that would be compared to the current Sunset. For comparison, the Sunset hauls 100,000 riders over 2,000 route miles every year. The Wolverines haul 500,000 riders over 300 miles each year with 3x frequency. If an Arizona corridor and Texas corridor were established, you'd have 1 million passengers per year. That is such a big difference

Dunno... AZDOT is pretty far along on TUS-PHX. I can't imagine Brightline/Virgin or another private operator would step in where the State is already planning commuter service, and something tells me UP wouldn't want to deal with anyone other than Amtrak right now.

https://www.azdot.gov/planning/transpor ... is-and-rod" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The option chosen by the EIS essentially uses the PHX sub's ROW, presumably with no significant additional ROW acquisition required...

And, getting back on topic, it won't go anywhere near Maricopa... the option via Maricopa was ruled out because it was longer, required negotiating with the Gila Reservation and missed the East Valley entirely. Maybe light rail can work it's way south along AZ-347...

I have little faith in that project operating by 2030. Brightline has proven they can do, quickly, everything the government tells us is impossible. As of right now, the Arizona website notes: "There is currently no construction schedule and no funding identified for a project to build a rail system between Tucson and Phoenix. Moving forward, the public and policymakers will decide how to generate the funding to pay for the project".

IE don't count on anything before 2030. For comparison, how long has NICTD been saying the same thing about the MIchigan City bypass? Amtrak about the Hudson tunnels? Metra about the SWS going into LaSalle? These have all been under perpetual study since 1990. Heck Boston's NEC electrification took 24 years!

Also, Brightline opened in a corridor directly served by a commuter authority on the same route, with stops only a mile apart or so. If my experience with the Tri Rail was indicative of their usual service (below) I don't worry about Brightline suffering from Tri Trail competition. Like Tri rail, the any UP-hosted operation will have to deal with UP freights. I've spent quite a few times inbound to Tucson waiting for UP freights. 10 miles north of town, sit for half an hour. That won't fly in a corridor service charged with expediently moving business travelers over 90 miles. It totally ruins the math. Every time a corridor train with 200 passengers gets delayed 30 minutes for a freight, that's 200 people that likely will drive next time.

Finally, consider the goals of each operator: An Arizona-owned train will be run for the purpose of shuttling commuters into Phoenix. A Brightline-owned operation will be for moving people point-to-point between Sky Harbor, a handful of developments between the two towns, University of Arizona, and Davis-Monthan.

Tri Rail:
https://p1.liveauctioneers.com/857/2166 ... quality=50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UP and "new" commuter rail agencies can get along just fine if - - - -
the commuter rail agency buys the land within or adjacent to the UP corridor and build new tracks for passenger commuter trains on it.

Recent examples to make that point extremely clear - - - -
TexRail laying new tracks on land immediately adjacent to a UP owned corridor or immediately below or above the UP owned corridor.
Regional Transportation District laying new tracks on land immediately adjacent to a UP owned corridor or immediately above the UP owned corridor with flyovers.
Utah Transportation Authority (UTA) buying half the land within the UP owned corridor and building new tracks on it, building flyover over any remaining UP tracks.

Let us face reality, the UP does not want to share any tracks with any commuter rail transit agencies. The UP doesn't want to share their right-of-way either, but they might be willing to sell some land in their corridors for the right price as long as you do not affect their freight operations.

The idea that the UP will allow Arizona to share their tracks or rail corridors for a fairly cheap price is not logical.

As for Brightline's dealings with FEC, who is paying the full price to double track the existing line, and paying to buy or lease the land in new rail corrrdiors adjacent or within Florida's highways, turnpikes, and airports? Hint = It is not the FEC RR.

I agree, a new track is the difference. But i think azdot is trying to make this work on existing tracks, right?

Tadman wrote:I agree, a new track is the difference. But i think azdot is trying to make this work on existing tracks, right?

If Arizona is thinking the UP will share those tracks, they are barking up the wrong tree!
The regional planners are hoping for the cheapest scenario, but ask Lone Star Rail what the UP wanted between Austin and San Antonio for access to an existing busy freight railroad corridor?
To make it simple, an entirely new freight railroad corridor. Austin and San Antonio hoped to reposition heavy freight trains away from the city centers. But after 10 years of studies and pleas to both State and Federal governments for finances, the UP killed the proposal even if money could have been raised. Why, the UP had too many freight customers on the existing line that did it want freight services very late at night or very early in the morning, the graveyard shift. The UP is not going to turn large freight customers away to make room for commuter trains running every hour.
Phoenix to Tucson freight traffic is large enough for the UP to nix sharing tracks.

If you are eventually going to have to build a new railroad corridor anyways, why not build a passenger train corridor instead of a new freight corridor?

I mean.... AZ could just have Amtrak operate it as a state-supported corridor... right?

The only place there's a need for an extra track is Tucson-Picacho. There's no need to double-track the Phoenix Sub. The existing 2-5 freights a day can easily fit into a night-only operation, and if the Red Rock yard ever gets built, a lot of the current traffic may simply dray up I-10. As for existing customers... I can't think of a whole lot of high volume shippers between Picacho and downtown.

There's already some precedent for joint freight-commuter service on the UP in Chicago. They manage to maintain freight movements in the off-hours and evenings just fine on the 90 mile trip from Proviso up to Janesville and back. The local jobs all manage to fit into overnight or mid-day windows between the inbound and outbound rush.

Under the temporary Feb - March eastbound schedule departing LAUPT at 19:26 (rather than the usual 22:30), is dinner served on the first night, departing LA? Normally it would not be under the usual 22:30 timing, but how about under this temporary earlier departure?

And Amtrak is now asking the STB to find out why Union Pacific keeps making the train late.

WASHINGTON — Amtrak has asked the Surface Transportation Board to investigate what it calls the “abysmal” on-time performance of the Sunset Limited, which it attributes largely to the operating practices of Union Pacific, and seeks “damages and other relief” from UP as a result of those practices.

Amtrak lays out the details of its complaint in a 76-page document, one of two filings with the board on Thursday, Dec. 8. Since the complaint is the first of its kind under a provision of the Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act of 2008 — which charges the STB with the responsibility to investigate passenger on-time performance issues and how to address those issues — Amtrak has also proposed a framework for the proceeding in a separate 17-page filing.

First time filing since the new on-time regulations came into effect, so lets see what happens.

Jeff posted this elsewhere; but theres a buried lede…

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/am ... ?_amp=true

Amtrak’s Southwest Chief among long-distance routes in line for improvements
...
The Sunset Limited, which offers service between New Orleans and Los Angeles, will also increase to a daily service, as well as adding a stop in Phoenix along its route.
...

More on Phoenix: https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/07/amt ... utType=amp

Amtrak applying for federal funds to return service to Phoenix

PHOENIX (3TV/CBS 5) - Since 1996, the Amtrak station in Maricopa has been the closest stop to Phoenix. However, Amtrak is working to change that. “(It is) frankly an embarrassment that we don’t serve such a major, prominent city,” said Amtrak’s CEO, Stephen Gardner.
...
“Phoenix is the largest city in the United States of America without Amtrak service. It’s not acceptable,” he said. Stanton didn’t say when the updated route would go online if Amtrak receives the green light but mentioned it could be in a “very short time period.”

“One of the locations that Amtrak is making, is to bring back Sunset Limited, which goes all the way from New Orleans to Los Angeles, including connecting Phoenix and Tucson. That would be a daily route,” he said.

He said the route would bring more money and development to the area and reduce pollution. “Could you imagine the number of cars that will be taken off the I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson? How much safer that’s going to make the roads?” said Stanton.
...

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:31 am More on Phoenix: https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/07/amt ... utType=amp

As I mentioned in the Southwest Chief thread, Phoenix will need a lot of work, mainly laying down track around Phoenix Union Station (it's down to 1 track now VS what could be three and a small yard. Plus, going westbound will need some track maintenance.

From Holiday Inn Express Clearfield PA--

Mr. Wolf I believe you will find the Phoenix station structure is occupied by T-Mobile by way of Sprint. Don't think it's "exactly available" to serve passenger trains.