All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Track 1 suffered a washout between Downingtown and Whitford on Monday. Amtrak is sneaking by on one track, but SEPTA suspended west of Malvern.

any signs of consistent MoW trains going out from 2:40-5:30 times (PM). i just want to catch some for my yt. is there Ties that should be going out (due to washout)

Emmett wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:58 am any signs of consistent MoW trains going out from 2:40-5:30 times (PM). i just want to catch some for my yt. is there Ties that should be going out (due to washout)

Work trains generally run overnight on the PH Line, if they run. It's possible for them to run in the daytime but I haven't heard of any going out.

I haven't seen any alerts or delays on SEPTA as of late, so I'm assume they fixed it fast.

The washout is filled, with a temporary speed restriction in place.

I've spent some time along the Main Line as of late and I have two things to share.

1. Construction Update at Lancaster, PA (Feb 2024)
Previously (not on Dragonball Z) in Jan 2024, the Track 1 platform was in the process of being demolished. I took another trip there in Feb 2024 and well, there isn't a platform to stand on.

So, yes, all eastbound trains continue to cross to track 2 at CORK then back to 1 at CONESTOGA.
YouTube Video Here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3kWq7UZkgk

They're making progress, so that's good. Out of curiosity, does anyone know when this is scheduled to be completed? Or possibly what it'll look like when completed?

2. 6 Car Keystone with a Cafe Car & No Cab Car

Months ago, I mentioned I rode a Keystone train that had a cafe car, which to my understanding was for WiFi service.
Months later, in February, when I was railfanning at Ardmore, I wound up seeing a Keystone with the same set up.
Two ACS-64s (one on each end), cafe car, 5 coaches, and no cab car.

YouTube Video Here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8f71gkJAhU

If I'm not mistaken, Keystones don't have food service because Pennsylvania won't subsidize it, correct?
Not that I'm interested in eating Amtrak's food (no disrespect, I just prefer food from the towns I visit).
I also wonder if a cafe car would make sense on the Keystone if money (for funding the car) wasn't an issue.

Most people seem to only take Keystones on the PHL - HBG & PHL - NYP stretches. So, anywhere from 40-90 min trips (the shorter end implies to intermediate stations).
I can't imagine too many passengers wanting to pay for food & beverages.
Besides you'd have to pay to staff & clean it, which could potentially lengthen times at terminal stations.

Food for thought. Pun intended. Lighten up & live a little .

NortheastTrainMan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:57 pm If I'm not mistaken, Keystones don't have food service because Pennsylvania won't subsidize it, correct?
Not that I'm interested in eating Amtrak's food (no disrespect, I just prefer food from the towns I visit).
I also wonder if a cafe car would make sense on the Keystone if money (for funding the car) wasn't an issue.

That is correct. Pennsylvania does not want to pay for it. I would consider it a waste as the service is really a quasi commuter service between Philadelphia and Harrisburg.

I have been taking Keystones most evenings home from work to Paoli and I have noticed the crew announcing there is no cafe car, which was not announced before. The set almost never has a cafe car so I am not sure what drives the practice.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:49 pm That is correct. Pennsylvania does not want to pay for it. I would consider it a waste as the service is really a quasi commuter service between Philadelphia and Harrisburg.

I have been taking Keystones most evenings home from work to Paoli and I have noticed the crew announcing there is no cafe car, which was not announced before. The set almost never has a cafe car so I am not sure what drives the practice.

They probably have too many (new) people asking about it.

That said, I'm with Pennsylvania on this. It's 2 hours between Harrisburg and Philly, and another 1.5 hours Philly to the Big Apple. If your station doesn't have food, then there's your problem.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:21 am

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:49 pm That is correct. Pennsylvania does not want to pay for it. I would consider it a waste as the service is really a quasi commuter service between Philadelphia and Harrisburg.

I have been taking Keystones most evenings home from work to Paoli and I have noticed the crew announcing there is no cafe car, which was not announced before. The set almost never has a cafe car so I am not sure what drives the practice.

They probably have too many (new) people asking about it.

That said, I'm with Pennsylvania on this. It's 2 hours between Harrisburg and Philly, and another 1.5 hours Philly to the Big Apple. If your station doesn't have food, then there's your problem.

There is a layover at PHL where people can usually get something too.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:49 pm I have been taking Keystones most evenings home from work to Paoli and I have noticed the crew announcing there is no cafe car, which was not announced before. The set almost never has a cafe car so I am not sure what drives the practice.

They always announce this when departing NYP. Mostly because corridor folks might be taking it and wondering where they can get a snack.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:21 amThey probably have too many (new) people asking about it.

That said, I'm with Pennsylvania on this. It's 2 hours between Harrisburg and Philly, and another 1.5 hours Philly to the Big Apple. If your station doesn't have food, then there's your problem.

+1. And if you don’t plan ahead and bring food with you, it’s your problem. The argument of “people won’t ride the train if there’s no cafe car” is absurd. The LD routes need both the dining and cafe cars and the DC-BOS NEC trains do warrant cafe cars (though I wouldn’t miss them if they were replaced with an additional coach), but the short haul routes definitely don’t need them with perhaps the exception of NYP-Niagara Falls, Adirondack, SD-San Luis Obispo Surfliner, Kansas City-STL-CHI, and the Roanoke/Norfolk/Newport News/Richmond NEC trains.


And to the point about HAR-PHL and then PHL-NYP: are there any known stats on how many travel beyond the core Keystone Corridor to the NYC area (not just to say Trenton)? Some discussion here years ago suggested that there was a decent amount of daily Paoli-NYP “super commuter” ridership. I’m sure COVID permanently changed that.

NH2060 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:17 pm +1. And if you don’t plan ahead and bring food with you, it’s your problem. The argument of “people won’t ride the train if there’s no cafe car” is absurd. The LD routes need both the dining and cafe cars and the DC-BOS NEC trains do warrant cafe cars (though I wouldn’t miss them if they were replaced with an additional coach), but the short haul routes definitely don’t need them with perhaps the exception of NYP-Niagara Falls, Adirondack, SD-San Luis Obispo Surfliner, Kansas City-STL-CHI, and the Roanoke/Norfolk/Newport News/Richmond NEC trains.

My rule of thumb is that if you're over 3 hours (aka WAS-NYP) you need a cafe car. The Keystone's a stretch, but it depends on traffic... and PAO-NYP is about 2 hours.

NH2060 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:17 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:21 amThey probably have too many (new) people asking about it.

That said, I'm with Pennsylvania on this. It's 2 hours between Harrisburg and Philly, and another 1.5 hours Philly to the Big Apple. If your station doesn't have food, then there's your problem.

+1. And if you don’t plan ahead and bring food with you, it’s your problem. The argument of “people won’t ride the train if there’s no cafe car” is absurd. The LD routes need both the dining and cafe cars and the DC-BOS NEC trains do warrant cafe cars (though I wouldn’t miss them if they were replaced with an additional coach), but the short haul routes definitely don’t need them with perhaps the exception of NYP-Niagara Falls, Adirondack, SD-San Luis Obispo Surfliner, Kansas City-STL-CHI, and the Roanoke/Norfolk/Newport News/Richmond NEC trains.


And to the point about HAR-PHL and then PHL-NYP: are there any known stats on how many travel beyond the core Keystone Corridor to the NYC area (not just to say Trenton)? Some discussion here years ago suggested that there was a decent amount of daily Paoli-NYP “super commuter” ridership. I’m sure COVID permanently changed that.

Anecdotally such super commuters still exist and might actually be a larger contingent on certain days. Hybrid schedules make it easier to live here and go in a few days.

Does Pennsylvania subsidize the entire Keystone Service, or only that part which extends west of Harrisburg (i.e., does Amtrak pick up the tab on the Keystones from Philadelphia to NYC)?

I ask because although the Amtrak Virginia services all operate north of Washington, Virginia only subsidizes the operations south of Union Station and am wondering if that is similar for the Keystone services.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:53 am Does Pennsylvania subsidize the entire Keystone Service, or only that part which extends west of Harrisburg (i.e., does Amtrak pick up the tab on the Keystones from Philadelphia to NYC)?

I ask because although the Amtrak Virginia services all operate north of Washington, Virginia only subsidizes the operations south of Union Station and am wondering if that is similar for the Keystone services.

PA subsidizes west of Philadelphia.

Before Covid, the Keystone Service was almost profitable (mid-90% fare recovery). That was in the toilet for some time and I haven’t seen the recent numbers, but anecdotally every Keystone I have been on between Paoli and Philadelphia has been at least half full and there seems to be a lot of people boarding and getting off the trains going both directions in the morning and afternoon at Philly and Paoli.