• Alco 636's on NYSW

  • Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.
Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

Moderator: Alcoman

  by ANDY117
I just want to see them in NYSW paint, with ditch lights, and the big plows! Probably would be cool to see 3020 in NYSW paint as well...

  by scottychaos
its official! all EIGHT Cartier engines are now with the Susquehanna!
75 and 85 left Cohocton a few days ago, they arrived in Binghamton on Wednesday, 8-17.
Andy snagged the first pics:




so..which is which?
I have some good photos of 75 and 85 in cohocton, but they are mostly of the *other* side from Andy's pics!
but I think found enough photo evidence to prove that they were numbured consecutively,
75 is 3672
85 is 3674

here is my analysis:

the rust stains on the white sriping near the cab matches on 75 and 3672.

the air filters behind the cab:
75 has a pattern of 4 horizontal and 3 vertical.
85 has a pattern of 3 horizontal and 4 vertical.
those details can be seen on 3672 and 3674.

75 has a sinclair antenna dead center on the cab roof.
so does 3672.

85 has a sinclair antenna on the side of the cab roof.
so does 3674.

it looks like 75 has a black cab roof and black nose top.
while 85 is all orange.
cant quite make the nose in the photos I have so far..

once we get clear photos of the LEFT side of 3672 and 3674, I have other photos of 75 and 85 that should clinch it!
but for now im 99% confidant which is which..




  by thebigham
Thanks for the pics!!


  by ANDY117
You're welcome! I think they were moved out yesterday. I'm not sure.

  by D.Carleton
MEC407 wrote:Cartier must have had a reason for getting rid of them. I doubt they chose to go out and buy brand new GEs just for the fun of it!
It has to be understood that Cartier is more conveyor belt, moving ore from the mines to the dock, than railroad. A real railroad can pass its fuel expense directly to the customer who in turn passes it to the consumer. Cartier's fuel expense reflects directly on its end product. If they are to compete on the world market then they must keep their expenses as low as reasonably achievable. The AC4400CWs that supplanted the ALCOs certainly pull more for less money. Whatever maintenance caveats are involved are icing on the cake. In any event, six-motor ALCOs are running in the Northeast. Life is good.

  by oibu
When considering why QCM got the new GE's to replace most of the Alcos, it must be considered that a.) no matter how good a product sooner or alter it becomes economically obsolete b.) with the new GEs' they run 2 units per train instead of 3 due to higher horsepower, more advanced wheelsip control, etc.- I'm not sure this means the GE are cheaper to run on a PER UNIT basis c.) road failures and shop downtime are viirtually intolerable on QCM due to the anture and remoteness of itsoperations- their fleet would put any Class I to shame in terms of reliability; so, I'd say it speak pretty well that 30+ year old units could meet these demands- in far tougher service than on NYS&W, I might add.

Now, as for why they make sense for NYS&W:

Fuel efficiency is probably better than anything else in the recent NYS&W fleet except the B40s and Sd70s.

"expensive" or "hard to find" Alco parts are more myth than reality unless you'e talking about an old Tri-Mount truck or soemthing.

"expensive" also parts are still a bargain compared to the cost of EMD or GE parts.

Alcos are cheaper initially to buy.

Alcos perfom very well when given proper maintenance.
  by isaksenj
Bean Counters rule on this sort of thing. The equipment was LONG since depreciated, and there would be a benefit to the bookkeeping from the purchase/leasing of new equipment.

All of the other points are just icing on the cake when you really come down to it.

Those B-40's and SD-70's might look good on paper, but where are they ? The GE's are sold, to other lines, and the SD-70's are slowly falling into disrepair, on the I&O. Cartier not only realizes the economies of running 1 less unit per train, with the limited fuel saving associated with a more fuel efficient, but higher horsepower (and therefore, higher fuel conumption rate, than a loco with 1/3 less HP), but you can also believe that as new, state of the art units, they have an all inclusive warranty that is more than likely a seven year deal, although up to 10 years is possible. Factory supplies mechanics/labor for these types of repairs, if needed, or pays the carrier a fixed, pre-determined rate, for repairs needed. (in theory, these should need nothing other than routine running maintanance.) The ALCO's were probably paid for, several times over, with the depriciation being allowed, for every unit, on every rebuild, etc. As long as the Suzy will maintain the ALCO's, to the high standards that the Cartier folks maintained them, they should last well into this century. ALCO's are no more "problematic", or tempramental, than any other builders offerings, you do need, however, a mechanical force who is willing to learn all of the subtle differences in them (from the EMD's, GE's, etc) and who want to keep them in repair. No loco fleet will last, if the guys operating them don't care about them, or the guys who repair/maintain them don't care about them, either. Adding only fuel, sand and oil, and not attending to any other issues will render even those new GE's worthless, after a very short time. The roads running ALCO's have to want them, and more important, they have to want to keep them. My .02 cents worth, anyways. Regards :wink:
  by Ale Rider
Great post Golden Arm, well put. I hope that the NYSW will care for the big Cartier units like the DLW, A&M, and the LAL....


  by alcoiowa
Alco's run good when the workforce knows and understands Alcos. It is also important that the Boss, be it the Enginehouse Foreman or the CMO, likes Alcos. If the Boss dislikes them, believe me, the word will spread and the Alcos will perform poorly. Conversely, if the Boss likes Alcos, they stand a better chance of performing satisfactorily.
When I was Master Mechanic on Penn Central, we had 66 Alco Switchers at Meadows. The Enginehouse Foreman liked the 539 engine (he was not a railfan) and it showed. We had the best running Alco switchers on the system and rarely more than 5 out of service on any given day.
You cannot run an Alco with EMD maintenance and have any hope of a good running Alco fleet.

  by ANDY117
Another has been renumbered to 3664! Not sure what the old number was though, not 78.

  by Alcoman
One of the NYSW 636's is now in Scranton for a "tune-up" by the forces of the D-L. I understand they will have the unit for 2-3 weeks and it may be possible to see AND hear a 4 unit lash-up of 6 axle ALCO power!

  by ANDY117
Maybe it's the one i saw in Conklin yard a few days back, it was at the fueling pad, surrounded by CP units.