Acela II (Alstom Avelia Liberty): Design, Production, Delivery, Acceptance

Tadman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:20 pm Top speed gets all the glory, while eliminating slow sections tends to speed up the schedule.

Just imagine if all the slow section tracks except North PHL - PHL and stations was upgraded to at least 125. Someone SWAG an estimate including. That would allow for more trips peer week for all equipment without buying the needed equipment for the slower sppeds.

lensovet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:16 pm Of course, there's no way in hell that the Elizabeth curve is ever getting fixed, since new housing was built next to it in the last 5 years.

Wait, what? I thought there was just abandoned warehouses there?

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:23 am

lensovet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:16 pm Of course, there's no way in hell that the Elizabeth curve is ever getting fixed, since new housing was built next to it in the last 5 years.

Wait, what? I thought there was just abandoned warehouses there?

That S-curve? Look at Google Maps short of the Elisabeth NJ-Transit station! There's universities and government buildings around the tracks!

lensovet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:16 pm Of course, there's no way in hell that the Elizabeth curve is ever getting fixed, since new housing was built next to it in the last 5 years.

I heard Acelas are good at straightening the curves at Elizabeth.

STrRedWolf wrote:

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:23 am

lensovet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:16 pm Of course, there's no way in hell that the Elizabeth curve is ever getting fixed, since new housing was built next to it in the last 5 years.

Wait, what? I thought there was just abandoned warehouses there?

That S-curve? Look at Google Maps short of the Elisabeth NJ-Transit station! There's universities and government buildings around the tracks!

I'm not convinced a single half- or whole-mile set of curves is a serious problem for losing time. I should do an analysis of time savings. New Jersey's alignments are pretty solid.

Agreed, and based on issues this summer, it seems like catenary is the bigger problem.

Ultimately the issue here on the WAS-NYP segment I think is congestion (the northern section is known to be hampered by curves on which Acela can't tilt due to clearance issues). The schedule is padded as a result. NWK-NYP is scheduled 20 minutes for a 10-mile segment, or 30 mph. Meanwhile PHL-NWK averages about 90 mph.

lensovet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 12:55 am Agreed, and based on issues this summer, it seems like catenary is the bigger problem.

Ultimately the issue here on the WAS-NYP segment I think is congestion (the northern section is known to be hampered by curves on which Acela can't tilt due to clearance issues). The schedule is padded as a result. NWK-NYP is scheduled 20 minutes for a 10-mile segment, or 30 mph. Meanwhile PHL-NWK averages about 90 mph.

The Acelas run with the tilt system enabled the full length of the corridor…

Wikipedia says

Metro-North Railroad restricts tilting on the segment of track north of New York which it owns

…but provides no citation. Is this not accurate?

We have been running with tilt enabled on MNR for over 10 years, so I would say that is not accurate.

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:30 am Not to mention the catenary, which sucks, particularly in NJ, and the long obsolete 25Hz power.

I agree about the catenary. Amtrak needs to step up the sluggish effort to replace the PRR era catenary with constant tension. Both for reliability as well as increasing speed.

There is nothing wrong with 25Hz per se. Modern system in Europe (eg. Germany and Switzerland) still use 16.7 Hz. Some of the NEC 25 Hz electrical equipment may be outdated and need to be replaced. Because of the widespread use of 16.7 Hz in Europe, there should be no problem obtaining locomotives, transformers etc. capable of 25 Hz operation.

jonnhrr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 11:45 am
I agree about the catenary. Amtrak needs to step up the sluggish effort to replace the PRR era catenary with constant tension. Both for reliability as well as increasing speed.

The constant tension work south of Princeton Junction toward Hamilton and Trenton appears to have stopped, with only some new poles to show for it. Guess they ran out of money again.

This is so frustrating. There should be no more >125mph train purchases until the fix the wires, as there is really no sense in it. We're like Nigeria buying HST125 and running them in commuter service or Argentina running Talgos at 40mph on bad track.

Tadman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:51 am This is so frustrating. There should be no more >125mph train purchases until the fix the wires, as there is really no sense in it. We're like Nigeria buying HST125 and running them in commuter service or Argentina running Talgos at 40mph on bad track.

Or Nigeria buying talgos for Metro service.

Tadman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:51 am This is so frustrating. There should be no more >125mph train purchases until the fix the wires, as there is really no sense in it. We're like Nigeria buying HST125 and running them in commuter service or Argentina running Talgos at 40mph on bad track.

It's dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. The A1's are breaking down faster and they need replacements now. Meanwhile you're stuck at the speeds you got because you need to replace the lines. You're ether stuck at slow speeds or you're stuck with no Acellas at all... and would you want to maintain service?

I mean I think there was a very clear path here and it wasn't as glamorous so of course the politicians and gov't workers ignored it.

Path 1: Replace Amfleet, AEM7, and Acela 1 with off-shelf Siemens or Bombardier equipment such as Railjet-like trains. No tilt, 125MAS, all coupled cars. Some of them are streamlined into HST look-alike and marketed as Acela 2 premium service (bigger seats, better food, limited stops), some are less-streamlined and marketed as Regionals. Replace a lot of catenary. In 20 years you are ready to run a real HST.

Path 2: Buy a bunch of HST that can go 150 in a few places, but you really only run 90 and 125 because the catenary is bad and MNCR owns a long stretch of the route.

I have acquaintances that ride for business. They ride Acela because their peers - high income bankers and lawyers - also ride Acela. They do this because Amtrak successfully marketed and advertised it as a premium bullet train. But they don't know who made it or how often it goes 125 or 150. It's a bit of an emperor new clothes situation. If you streamlined an AEM7 and Amfleet set, put connoly leather seats in 1+1, wilton carpets, served Dom and Filet daily, THEY WOULDN'T KNOW THE DIFF.

Tadman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:02 pm I mean I think there was a very clear path here and it wasn't as glamorous so of course the politicians and gov't workers ignored it.

Path 1: Replace Amfleet, AEM7, and Acela 1 with off-shelf Siemens or Bombardier equipment such as Railjet-like trains. No tilt, 125MAS, all coupled cars. Some of them are streamlined into HST look-alike and marketed as Acela 2 premium service (bigger seats, better food, limited stops), some are less-streamlined and marketed as Regionals. Replace a lot of catenary. In 20 years you are ready to run a real HST.

As much as I want TGV level service and the Acela brings us as close as we can realistically get on current domestic infrastructure, I think Brightline is a perfect example of what you're talking about. Make conventional equipment look more like an Acela, and suddenly it's perceived as a real HST!

That being said, the Avelia Liberty fleet is bought and paid for so I'd sure like to know what the heck is going on with it!