• Acela Disposition Discussion

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  • 257 posts
  • 1
  • 12
  • 13
  • 14
  • 15
  • 16
  • 18
  by photobug56
 
I gather that you are referring to the Acela trainsets. I just couldn't tell. So, what do you have against Acela's?
  by eolesen
 
Nothing, aside from the fact they're functionally obsolete once the A2's show up in regular service.

I really do miss my 1977 Chrysler New Yorker. Great car with the same rich Corinthian leather Ricardo Montalban used to pitch for the Cordoba. That thing floated down I-57 at any speed...

I also didn't try to dream up ways to keep it around past ten years old let alone 21 years, which is how old the last Acela delivered is this year.

It's time to let these make the one way trip to Naparano Recyclers or whoever still scraps locomotives on the East Coast. Save a couple truncated sets for the museums, and melt down the rest.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  by photobug56
 
I still hope that some good use will be found for them.

And I still miss my mom's 1955 Chrysler New Yorker Deluxe Victoria Convertible! But I do have a car even older - a 1926 Packard!
  by Ridgefielder
 
eolesen wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:35 pm
gokeefe wrote: In that case Canada becomes the obvious candidate and specifically VIA and lines between Toronto and Montreal.
Aside from the lack of catenary, sounds great. Begs the question why hasn't Canada pursued electrification before...

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
Aren't they planning to electrify some of the GO Transit lines centered on Toronto?
  by west point
 
electricron wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:59 pm
https://www.statista.com/statistics/451 ... in-europe/
EU-28 average, 54.3% is electrified, therefore 46.7% is not.

Admittingly, the Europe's railways electrification far exceeds America's and Canada's.
Bad way to justify your post. You are measuring route miles. Instead measure passenger miles electrified and not electrified. Also do the same for freight ton miles electrified and not electrified.
  by electricron
 
west point wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:15 am Bad way to justify your post. You are measuring route miles. Instead measure passenger miles electrified and not electrified. Also do the same for freight ton miles electrified and not electrified.
And what part of the following did you not comprehend the first time I wrote it?
"Because like the USA, Canada produces oil in significant numbers to be basically self supporting for oil. Therefore the diesel fuel is cheap. Unlike Japan and Europe, that rely upon Mideast oil that's relatively expensive, hence the love affair with electrification."
It is extremely hard to carry on an honest intelligent conversation when so many ignore what you say.
Additional information added is not always justification, sometimes it is just additional information.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
eolesen wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:15 pm It's time to let these make the one way trip to Naparano or whoever still scraps locomotives on the
East Coast.
Sims Metal now, other scrapyard is Frontier in eastern Ohio which has gotten all the MTA contracts lately.
  by west point
 
I was referring to the post about European mileages.
  by David Benton
 
Most of the European non electrified lines would be branchlines , or secondary lines. Uk and Spain are the only countries I can think of with Mainlines that are not Electrified.
The "international "oil price only differs from the USA price by less than USD $5 per barrel . The USA exports and imports oil , currently a net exporter. That has varied historically.
Saudi Arabia may be a potential customer for the Acelas. I think Mexico's electric passenger line has been deelectrified , and no longer has longer distance passenger trains.
  by electricron
 
David Benton wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:36 am Most of the European non electrified lines would be branchlines , or secondary lines. Uk and Spain are the only countries I can think of with Mainlines that are not Electrified.
The "international "oil price only differs from the USA price by less than USD $5 per barrel . The USA exports and imports oil , currently a net exporter. That has varied historically.
Saudi Arabia may be a potential customer for the Acelas. I think Mexico's electric passenger line has been deelectrified , and no longer has longer distance passenger trains.
Take another look at the link I supplied earlier, or try this other link I am providing now.
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/facts-fu ... railway_en
European countries with less than 50% of the rail lines electrified are:
Slovakia 43%
Slovenia 41%
Hungary 39%
Romania 37%
Croatia 37%
Czechia 34%
United Kingdom 33%
Denmark 24%
Greece 23%
Estonia 14%
Latvia 14%
Lithuania 6%
Ireland 2%
This list only includes those that were members of the European Union. Stop these generalizations, 2% of the railroads in Ireland does not include all the main lines. Just off this list at the high end, only 53% of the railroads in Germany are electrified. The SC44 and ALC42 Charger diesel locomotives being built brand new for Amtrak by Siemens have German bloodlines in them. Obviously there is a huge market for diesel locomotives remaining in Europe.

Getting the discussion back on topic, back in the day when these train sets were brand new, did not Bombardier build and display a non electric powered version power car to try to sell more Acela trainsets across North America? No one bought one then, maybe just maybe it is still feasible to change the power cars on these train sets.
  by bostontrainguy
 
electricron wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:21 am Getting the discussion back on topic, back in the day when these train sets were brand new, did not Bombardier build and display a non electric powered version power car to try to sell more Acela trainsets across North America? No one bought one then, maybe just maybe it is still feasible to change the power cars on these train sets.
They did:
The JetTrain was an experimental high-speed passenger train concept created by Bombardier Transportation in an attempt to make European-style high-speed service more financially appealing to passenger railways throughout North America. It was designed to use the same LRC-derived tilting carriages as the Acela Express trains that Bombardier built for Amtrak in the 1990s, which used all-electric locomotives. Unlike the Acela, powered electrically by overhead lines, the JetTrain would have used a combination of a 4,000-horsepower (3.0 MW) gas-turbine engine, a low-power diesel engine, a reduction gearbox, and two alternators to power electric traction motors. This would have allowed it to run at high speeds on non-electrified lines.
Image

And it may not even be dead quite yet:
Bombardier more recently has begun conversations with the state government of Yucatan in Mexico for the development of the Transpeninsular Fast Train. The project aims to connect the state capital of Mérida to the tourist resorts of the Mayan Riviera like Cancun and the Mayan Ruins of Chichen Itza. According to the Governor Ivonne Ortega, the train must run on diesel at an average speed of 100 mph, for which Bombardier deemed suitable the use of The JetTrain.

The demonstration turbine locomotive is presently (2019) stored at the Transportation Test Center in Pueblo, CO, awaiting an unknown future.


Info from Wikipedia
  by eolesen
 
What exactly is the cost/benefit and value proposition for updating 21+ year old Acela 1's versus using new Siemens locomotives (either Sprinters or Chargers) and Venture coaches?
  by rcthompson04
 
eolesen wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:03 am What exactly is the cost/benefit and value proposition for updating 21+ year old Acela 1's versus using new Siemens locomotives (either Sprinters or Chargers) and Venture coaches?
There are a few problems with Acelas in place of Regionals:
1. The consists are shorter and have less seats.
2. The sets would be limited to Washington to Boston. You couldn’t use the sets for the Virginia or New Haven services.
3. Sets would not be able to stop at some NE Regional stops due to low platforms. This would also preclude use on Keystone Corridor.

I think all these issues combined together make them impractical. The existing Amfleet pool works because it can be used for almost anything on the East Coast. You can splice and dice sets as needed to go wherever.
  by Ridgefielder
 
eolesen wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:03 am What exactly is the cost/benefit and value proposition for updating 21+ year old Acela 1's versus using new Siemens locomotives (either Sprinters or Chargers) and Venture coaches?
None that I can see in the US.

Seems to me that the only way these stay in revenue service is if they're sold on to some poorer nation like Mexico, South Africa or Ukraine that has 25kV A/C electrification and might be able to use them (and yes I know that neither SA nor Ukraine are standard gauge.) Or they wind up as de-powered rolling stock hauled by conventional locomotives in one of those countries, like the ex-New York, Westchester & Boston MU cars that wound up in Peru.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
That the 120 Acela cars do not have traps I think closes the door on any Third World operator "touching them".

Look for videos of Cuban railroads and it is quite evident they have scrounged for equipment with the only requirement being Standard Gauge. I've noted in such videos cars from France and Jamaica - both of which I have ridden in their home countries.

But further, Cuba has come upon some new Chinese built cars, so maybe they are in a position to walk away from their "if it rolls, we'll buy it" mindset:



Museums, first responder training (hasn't APD popped enough holes in the Turbos yet?), or the scrapyard.

Of course, equipment that became a household word - at least in the Northeast - and put Amtrak "in the game" for overhead NY-Wash market, deserves recognition. Such will come from a museum display.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • 1
  • 12
  • 13
  • 14
  • 15
  • 16
  • 18