Acela Disposition Discussion

California, elsewhere out west like between Vegas and California.

Admin Note:
There was some activity on disposition in the Avelia production/acceptance thread. I've temporarily reopened this topic. If we see the dead horse being beaten more, we'll lock it up again. Come with good ideas please.

The problem with any new corridors like Vegas is the time it will take to build them. No one is going to want to store a fleet of Acelas for that long. Not when lighter, far more efficient trainsets won't cost much more especially once the storage cost and refurb costs are added in.

A lot of the talk about why the Acelas can't be used has to do with obsolete computers. Aren't those the kinds of things you rip out and replace with newer tech during rebuilds/refurbs, as with the AEM-7AC rebuilds? Just wondering if the stainless steel shells and trucks have a lot more life in 'em than all of the guts attached to them.

some boards reportedly no longer available , or Bombardier want $$$$ for them or the rights to use them . Main problem is bad blood between Amtrak and Bombardier, and the fact the Acela 1's are too heavy for HSR.

Alstom handles the parts for the current acela trainsets nearly 100%. They run the parts stores at all 3 HSR facilites on the NEC. There is a way that somebody was able to put different, more reliable main processors and gate driver controls in the HHP-8s to solve some of those problems. The same can be done with the HST. the problem still lies though in the fully integrated trainset, with all computer systems on LON and CIN networks where every single onboard machine reports over the CIN (Car internal network) to a CMU (Car monitoring unit) which runs on Linux off a 386 processor. The massive CMU could be replaced with a rasberry pi... only problem is that would not solve the issue of all the inputs and outputs, something would have to be made for that. Stuff could be done but in the end you still have a high speed bank vault.

What physical condition is the Acela fleet in? Plus, can the trains be taken apart, with more passenger cars per power car pair, just not running as quickly in non-express service as suggested but renovated?

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:38 am Alstom handles the parts for the current acela trainsets nearly 100%. They run the parts stores at all 3 HSR facilites on the NEC. There is a way that somebody was able to put different, more reliable main processors and gate driver controls in the HHP-8s to solve some of those problems. The same can be done with the HST. the problem still lies though in the fully integrated trainset, with all computer systems on LON and CIN networks where every single onboard machine reports over the CIN (Car internal network) to a CMU (Car monitoring unit) which runs on Linux off a 386 processor. The massive CMU could be replaced with a rasberry pi... only problem is that would not solve the issue of all the inputs and outputs, something would have to be made for that. Stuff could be done but in the end you still have a high speed bank vault.

Right now, Alstom's Bombardier unit is rehabbing those MARC HHP-8's... and I think the main problem was cooling.

Still, Intel 386? Yes, it can be replaced with a Pi in Compute Module form and custom carrier board to plug into the train. Since it's Linux, it should be highly portable (save for any assembly language because 386). How many displays does the HHP-8 have... and how many does the Acela's engines have? Ether way, Alstom has experience in rebuilding and upgrading (see MTA Maryland's Light Rail).

California still has not bought any HSR train sets yet. It takes two to three years for new manufacture fleet to be built and tested before entering service. Maybe California will buy these old Acela sets up for initial service, because they have to do everything possible to reduce costs. Here's one way to do it.
Until the HSR corridor reaches LA or SF, I do not expect CHSR will buy new train sets. It would be extremely difficult to explain away to LA and SF residents why purchasing a brand new fleet is better than building the railroad to them first.

Bombardier mechanical people might be doing the physical work on the HHP8s for marc but the electronic work is a 3rd party. Both vehicles have 3 displays per cab but THOSE run their own system of QNX linux on a different processing system. Every device in these locos is its own computer system that gathers data off the LON or feeds to the LON and the displays get all of their info from there.

I would say the current sets are kind of in good shape and kind of bad. Theres stuff that is not being maintaned as well because they know new trains are coming. Theres stuff that they legally have to maintain well because the speed the train can do for TIer 2 certification.

AmeriStarRail thinks they are still usable and a big part of their proposal.

https://ameristarrail.com/

The people running ameri star rail are clowns.

CA HSR getting any Acela-1s highly unlikely. However if they did for testing or other items lease with a provision that all maintenance not responsibility of CA HSR. Further a high % of reliability which means as many sets on lease as necessary.

Ask Washington State and Oregon about the complexities of maintaining an orphan fleet of fixed trainsets...

Anything bought new for CAHSR on the Central Valley would be functionally obsolete by the time there's actual LA-SF service. I can see where renovating the Acelas for CAHSR might look good compared to that, but it's a waste of money to even be installing catenary and substations until the extensions to LA and SF are funded, land acquired and actually under construction. 2033 is the target date, which on that particular project probably means 2040.

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:15 am Anything bought new for CAHSR on the Central Valley would be functionally obsolete by the time there's actual LA-SF service. I can see where renovating the Acelas for CAHSR might look good compared to that, but it's a waste of money to even be installing catenary and substations until the extensions to LA and SF are funded, land acquired and actually under construction. 2033 is the target date, which on that particular project probably means 2040.

If it would be a waste of money to install the overhead catenary system (OCS) before interconnecting LA & SF, why are they building the tracks now? The whole point of building in the Valley was to demonstrate an active HSR train to Californians as cheap as possible so they can convince taxpayers to borrow more money by selling more bonds in another new referendum.
You can not demonstrate HSR without HSR trainsets, new or used. You can not run HSR trainsets without an OCS. You can not run HSR trains without laying new straighter track. You need a complete package to demonstrate HSR.
I agree any rolling stock bought new now will be obsolete by the time even Phase 1 is complete, which is why I suggest leasing cheap used Acela train sets for the interim. They also keep with being cheap for the demonstration purposes as well. This Valley demonstration line is going to be around 130-140 miles in length, a non stop express train going 150 mph should be able to travel between the initial terminating stations in less than an hour, compared to the 3.25 hours or so it takes today. Maybe not as fast as a train going 200+ mph, but surely fast enough for demonstration purposes.

If you take the attitude that no HSR trains should run until Phase 1 construction is completed, they should not have started building Phase 1 until "all" the EIS studies had been completed and "all" the funding needed to build Phase 1 was in the bank. Once you commit to a demonstration section so construction could start, stick to that decisions and carry it through. Otherwise you are admitting to the entire world you have built a $20 billion boondoggle.