A-Train to 81st Street/AMNH

This may seem like a totally ignorant question, but please bear with this uncivilized ignorant country bumpkin, haha.

This past Saturday my Dad and took a trip down to the city on one of his visits from Lake George. We decided on going to the Natural History Museum, a trip I've made several times.

I'm curious, with the AMNH being as popular a destination as it is (the line was HUGE Saturday around noon), why don't A-Trains stop there? Taking a wild guess, I'd say it has to do with the station layout (over-under), and with only platforms on the local tracks. It just seems like the C's are less frequent than the A's; I think there were two or three A's stopping at 42nd Street before we were able to catch a C.

One other observation I made is that the C doesn't seem to get the pick of the litter for trains does it? We caught an R32 going uptown, man those things aren't pretty, haha. It was kinda cool riding in the last car and watching the view out the RFW though. We did catch an R160 back downtown; I could get really used to those. The active destination signs are really helpful, especially when you can't always make out the station signage in a crowded car or get blessed with a buggy intercom.

I'm curious, with the AMNH being as popular a destination as it is (the line was HUGE Saturday around noon), why don't A-Trains stop there? Taking a wild guess, I'd say it has to do with the station layout (over-under), and with only platforms on the local tracks.

Simple: the IND was built for speed. Express stations were only placed at major streets and junctions. 81 St just isn't major enough to merit express service

It just seems like the C's are less frequent than the A's; I think there were two or three A's stopping at 42nd Street before we were able to catch a C.

Weekend service on the C is slightly less frequent than the A (every 10-11 minutes, compared to every 7-8). Weekday local service north of 59th is also bolstered by the B. Correcting either of those situations is an ongoing debate. Plus, the C is a fairly long line, and any issues with the A are likely to cascade to the C because the route is completely shared between them.

One other observation I made is that the C doesn't seem to get the pick of the litter for trains does it? We caught an R32 going uptown, man those things aren't pretty, haha.

It's a bit unfortunate, yes. The MTA recently published a study (PDF) wherein they claim that a 480-foot train meets current ridership demands. As for the R32s, well, you need to get 8 60-foot cars from somewhere. That said, their reliability is unmatched (52 years in service), with the main systemic issue with them being the AC which requires swapping fleets with the J/Z during the summer. One practical consideration which recently came up on another forum is that the line always runs the same route, so there's no operational need for a fleet with electronic destination signs. Rumor has it that the R160s may become permanently assigned to the C once the R179s arrive.

Thanks Kilgore, that all makes sense. I keep forgetting too that weekends usually have different service patterns coinciding with track work, tunnel closures, diversions, etc.

In regards to the 32's, they must be some of the oldest if not the oldest cars in active roster, correct? I'm kind of surprised the MTA hasn't given them a minor face lift with LED lighting and external signage like they did with the 62A's. Well, not surprised, but you know what I mean, haha

NaugyRR wrote:Thanks Kilgore, that all makes sense. I keep forgetting too that weekends usually have different service patterns coinciding with track work, tunnel closures, diversions, etc.

In regards to the 32's, they must be some of the oldest if not the oldest cars in active roster, correct? I'm kind of surprised the MTA hasn't given them a minor face lift with LED lighting and external signage like they did with the 62A's. Well, not surprised, but you know what I mean, haha

The R32s are the oldest cars still in service follwoed by a bunch of R42s that are on the J/Z. There are some R160's assigned to the C.

When the R179 cars start to be delivered some R32s will be retired and the MTA is expected to spend $49.2 million to refurbish and maintain 132 R32 cars through 2018 and then 110 R32 cars through 2019. The last remaining R42s will be retired with this order.

Once the R211A cars starts to be delivered (no date announced) the remaining R32s will be retired.

NRR and Everyone:

Just thought I would mention - if anyone is not aware - that the R32 cars were completely rebuilt during the late 1980s/early 1990s era.
Because of this factor their original mid 60s build date does not mean the same as compared to original equipment.

These cars were stripped down to the bare car shell and either have overhauled or new parts installed in them. Each car has a plaque on
the inside showing that Budd was the original car builder and Morrison-Knudsen (I believe it was MK) was the rebuilder along with the year...

Allan: Were the remaining R42 cars rebuilt in a similar manner? Did MK rebuild those cars also?

MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:.........

Allan: Were the remaining R42 cars rebuilt in a similar manner? Did MK rebuild those cars also?

MACTRAXX

282 cars (4550–4839) were overhauled by Morrison-Knudsen while the last 110 cars (4840–4949) were rebuilt in-house by the Coney Island Overhaul Shop in Brooklyn.

Some cars are being saved:
4572-4573 - preserved, repainted, and set aside for the New York Transit Museum.
4665 - preserved by the Railway Preservation Corp with its straight-ended R40A mate 4460. The pair is stored at Coney Island Yard and has seen some light cosmetic work.
4736-4737 - donated to East New York's Transit Tech High School on April 14, 2009, replacing R30 car 8337, which was reefed a few months later.

Allan: Thanks for the quick reply...

Do you have any information on the R46 car fleet as it pertains to current car assignment (A and R use the bulk of this 745 car fleet?)
I remember that they were rebuilt in that same late 80s/early 90s era being renumbered along with losing their blue side stripe -
Were these more MK or Coney Island in-house rebuilds? Any thoughts about when NYCT may retire the R46 fleet?

Back to the original topic: I like the way the IND was constructed under 8th Avenue/CPW and have always liked the long express stretch
between 59th and 125th Streets used by the A and D trains. The C local service is adequate to serve the local stops but depending on the
time of day could operate more frequently - depending on how service operates S of 50th Street (along with the E Train) to Downtown.

MACTRAXX

46s aren't going anywhere until the 211s show up.

MACTRAXX wrote:Allan: Thanks for the quick reply...

Do you have any information on the R46 car fleet as it pertains to current car assignment (A and R use the bulk of this 745 car fleet?)
I remember that they were rebuilt in that same late 80s/early 90s era being renumbered along with losing their blue side stripe -
Were these more MK or Coney Island in-house rebuilds? Any thoughts about when NYCT may retire the R46 fleet?

Back to the original topic: I like the way the IND was constructed under 8th Avenue/CPW and have always liked the long express stretch
between 59th and 125th Streets used by the A and D trains. The C local service is adequate to serve the local stops but depending on the
time of day could operate more frequently - depending on how service operates S of 50th Street (along with the E Train) to Downtown.

MACTRAXX

Joe Korman has the current fleet assignments on his site. The majority of R46s are assigned to the A and R, with 4 trains reserved for the F.

MACTRAXX wrote:Allan: Thanks for the quick reply...

Do you have any information on the R46 car fleet as it pertains to current car assignment (A and R use the bulk of this 745 car fleet?)
I remember that they were rebuilt in that same late 80s/early 90s era being renumbered along with losing their blue side stripe -
Were these more MK or Coney Island in-house rebuilds? Any thoughts about when NYCT may retire the R46 fleet?

.......

MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX,

Yes, MK did the general overhaul between 1989 and 1992 (when they were renumbered).

The R46s have been undergoing a SMS (Scheduled Maintenance System) to extended their life until the R211s come on board (at least 4 years from now).

Kilgore Trout wrote:the IND was built for speed. Express stations were only placed at major streets and junctions. 81 St just isn't major enough to merit express service

Yeah, but some places on the line have a lot of stations the A train stops at. Look at the stations after 168th Street, there is no express in that part of town. Or even worse, the part of the line after Euclid Avenue! In your defense, there is less traffic at the end of the lines. I just don't see why the C train stops at Euclid, instead of continuing to Ozone park. I could see it getting confused to tourists on the A train who accidentally end up there instead of at Far Rockaway.

C ends there mostly b/c ozone parkers want express service. Remember that the Far Rockaway line was not originally subway, and at one time, all As went to OP. FWIW, in the 70s, all trains were local and the (then the E) went to Rockaway Park.

Personality Sphere #0324 wrote: Yeah, but some places on the line have a lot of stations the A train stops at. Look at the stations after 168th Street, there is no express in that part of town. Or even worse, the part of the line after Euclid Avenue! In your defense, there is less traffic at the end of the lines. I just don't see why the C train stops at Euclid, instead of continuing to Ozone park. I could see it getting confused to tourists on the A train who accidentally end up there instead of at Far Rockaway.

Seriously? You can't have express service everywhere...

No tourists are taking the A out to Ozone Park or Far Rock...if any tourists are taking the A, it's to JFK. There is no need to run the C out to Ozone Park to keep people from getting confused...the system works pretty well.

You're new here...slow your roll.

I disagree. If C goes to OP, that means elimination of RPK S and more A service. Why not then?

That wasn't the reason the other person gave.

At any rate, this isn't the let's expand C service everywhere thread.