• A few B39s will be leaving

  • Discussion of present-day CM&Q operations, as well as discussion of predecessors Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway (MMA) and Bangor & Aroostook Railroad (BAR).
Discussion of present-day CM&Q operations, as well as discussion of predecessors Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway (MMA) and Bangor & Aroostook Railroad (BAR).

Moderator: MEC407

  by MEC407
 
There was a rumor that MMA might sell a few B39s once the "new" B23s come online. I made some calls, and I can now confirm that at least three MMA B39s have been spoken for by a buyer, and two or three others are available for purchase. So it's true: MMA's B39 fleet is going to be reduced in size.

  by emd_16645
 
I'll believe it when I see it. The MMA is really not in posistion to be selling power right now. They have had to run leased power every winter since the railroad started. This year they don't have the option of using the F40s as in the past. Therefore having extra power at Derby is a very good thing. Owning the spare power is even better. I don't expect to see them going anywhere anytime soon as the new B23-7s are having some trouble getting into service.

  by MEC407
 
I hear ya'. It does seem odd. But there may be other things going on behind the scenes that we aren't aware of. Their new VP Mechanical worked for GE Transportation for 24 years... maybe he'll have better luck getting the fleet through the winter.

Or maybe it's just a bad move. Wouldn't be the first time a railroad has made weird decisions about power and later regretted it. Just look at NYSW!

That said, the info I got came from a reputable source (and by reputable, I'm not talking about Joe Railfan or Mike Conductor)... but, in the event that it does turn out to be bogus, I am prepared to eat crow. I'm very careful about what I post on here. I hate rumors, and wouldn't have posted this unless I was 99% certain that it was legitimate info... hence I took the time to make some calls and find out for myself.

  by Realityrail
 
I heard the same thing that MEC 409 did. The B39-8 units that are for sale already have a down payment placed on them. They will be released when the B23's are in service.

There are problems with the B23's---it is called time and man power. MMA needs to prepare the units with rear ditch lights, snow plows, some need event recoders, all need the air conditioners removed and plated over, which menas the cabs will need to be refurbished. Also, the cab doors will be replaced on most unts. Mechanically, they were maintained under contract at BNSF by GE, so they are in great shape. My connection at BNSF ran the shop and defect records- they were all stored with no mechanical defects.

Can any one get the unit numbers of the ones that are going to be sold?

  by emd_16645
 
Realityrail wrote:I heard the same thing that MEC 409 did. The B39-8 units that are for sale already have a down payment placed on them. They will be released when the B23's are in service.

There are problems with the B23's---it is called time and man power. MMA needs to prepare the units with rear ditch lights, snow plows, some need event recoders, all need the air conditioners removed and plated over, which menas the cabs will need to be refurbished. Also, the cab doors will be replaced on most unts. Mechanically, they were maintained under contract at BNSF by GE, so they are in great shape. My connection at BNSF ran the shop and defect records- they were all stored with no mechanical defects.

Can any one get the unit numbers of the ones that are going to be sold?
Jut because an unit is stored with no mechanical defects doesn't mean it will run 100% when it is reactivated. Letting an engine (or a car, or anything thing else similar) sit for an extended period of time will have an adverse effect on that equipment. I don't doubt that when BNSF stored the units they were in great shape, but that was some time ago. Things like rear ditch lights and snowplows at this point are minor, they are not keeping the units from service. The ex-ATSF GP7us all currently have only front ditchlights, which is part of the reason that they are kept in yard service most of the time. Snowplows again aren't needed until the snow flies. From a reliability standpoint, the MMA doesn't trust these units yet. Each time one has been out on the road, it has failed.

To give this rumor some credit tho, Randy Stahl hasn't made an appearance on the web on this subject. He jumped up pretty quickly on the MMA email list when someone reported that a B23 had possibly been rejected and was heading back west.

  by Realityrail
 
Are you serious? They were under GE contract maintenance, and had been stored less four months. not "some time ago!"

Have you looked at these units? GE maintained these and even rebuilt the engines ten years ago. They are clean, running and in better shape than one could ever expect.

"Things like rear ditch lights and snowplows at this point are minor, they are not keeping the units from service.....Snowplows again aren't needed until the snow flies."

Put the units into service now, then apply the plows at the time it starts to snow? Sure, then stack up the shop with that work when you can do it now! This way of looking at locomotives it what caused the previous CMO his job, which is why it is being done NOW, not later. These units were to have the work I previously described before they are placed in service. Those are the standing orders from the top.

"From a reliability standpoint, the MMA doesn't trust these units yet. Each time one has been out on the road, it has failed."

Failures on the road? I was told they never were out of Derby since their arrival. Do you have trip dates?

Oh, and by the way, this comes from the new CMO, not some accounting clerk in Bangor!

  by Realityrail
 
Are you serious? They were under GE contract maintenance, and had been stored less four months. not "some time ago!"

Have you looked at these units? GE maintained these and even rebuilt the engines ten years ago. They are clean, running and in better shape than one could ever expect.

"Things like rear ditch lights and snowplows at this point are minor, they are not keeping the units from service.....Snowplows again aren't needed until the snow flies."

Put the units into service now, then apply the plows at the time it starts to snow? Sure, then stack up the shop with that work when you can do it now! This way of looking at locomotives it what caused the previous CMO his job, which is why it is being done NOW, not later. These units were to have the work I previously described before they are placed in service. Those are the standing orders from the top.

"From a reliability standpoint, the MMA doesn't trust these units yet. Each time one has been out on the road, it has failed."

Failures on the road? I was told they never were out of Derby since their arrival. Do you have trip dates?

Oh, and by the way, this comes from the new CMO, not some accounting clerk in Bangor!

  by Realityrail
 
Are you serious? They were under GE contract maintenance, and had been stored less four months. not "some time ago!"

Have you looked at these units? GE maintained these and even rebuilt the engines ten years ago. They are clean, running and in better shape than one could ever expect.

"Things like rear ditch lights and snowplows at this point are minor, they are not keeping the units from service.....Snowplows again aren't needed until the snow flies."

Put the units into service now, then apply the plows at the time it starts to snow? Sure, then stack up the shop with that work when you can do it now! This way of looking at locomotives it what caused the previous CMO his job, which is why it is being done NOW, not later. These units were to have the work I previously described before they are placed in service. Those are the standing orders from the top.

"From a reliability standpoint, the MMA doesn't trust these units yet. Each time one has been out on the road, it has failed."

Failures on the road? I was told they never were out of Derby since their arrival. Do you have trip dates?

Oh, and by the way, this comes from the new CMO, not some accounting clerk in Bangor!

  by uhaul
 
Why take the air conditioning unit out of these locomotives?
The cab doors probably need new weather stripping, but would warrant the doors' replacements?

9-11-01
9-11-07

  by Realityrail
 
The air conditioning units are prone to failure, and given the weather in Maine is not that of California, it was decided to remove them. Also, the units can some times allow water seapage into the cab. One unit had a water leak in the roof that was either caused by poor sealing or a clogged air conditioning drain. So off they go.

The cab doors are in need of repair. Rather than use labor hours to repair, patch and weather strip them, it was agreed to apply all new doors.

  by emd_16645
 
Realityrail wrote:Are you serious? They were under GE contract maintenance, and had been stored less four months. not "some time ago!"

Have you looked at these units? GE maintained these and even rebuilt the engines ten years ago. They are clean, running and in better shape than one could ever expect.
From what I've been told, the MMA was told that the units had been stored only for a few months, but upon arrival found that the units had been stored longer than a few months. I have not seen the units up close yet. Just because GE had a maintenance contract and rebuilt the units a decade ago does not mean the units are in good shape.
Realityrail wrote:"From a reliability standpoint, the MMA doesn't trust these units yet. Each time one has been out on the road, it has failed."

Failures on the road? I was told they never were out of Derby since their arrival. Do you have trip dates?
I don't have dates, all I know is atleast one went north on 202 to Millinocket, and failed soon after leaving.
Realityrail wrote:Oh, and by the way, this comes from the new CMO, not some accounting clerk in Bangor!
I don't know who you are, or who you think your sources are. For all I know, you are that accounting clerk railfan in Bangor without any actual sources who thinks he knows everything about the railroad. My source is a friend I trust who knows most everybody at the MMA. Who's information should I trust? A good friend, or some random person on the internet who won't bother to sign his posts or even check it for basic spelling errors for that matter?[/quote]

  by Realityrail
 
I think you are a frustrated railfan who needs to cease sending out info from some one who knows everyone on MMA. Could this be Santa Claus? Could it be the spirit of Casey Jones? Could it be the phantom of the spell checker?

Name your source my friend....after all, you made your position known first, sending it out as factual. Put up or shut up.

  by emd_16645
 
My source frequents this list and if he wants to open his mouth about the subject, then he can reveal himself. At least I don't go running around claiming to know upper management while hiding behind an internet screenname. How am I or the other members of this list able to trust your information if you won't even stand by it. Not signing your name makes it pretty easy to blab BS all over the place and then jump away to say "it wasn't me" when you're proven wrong.

  by CN9634
 
Okay fellahs maybe we should let it go or take it off this thread, dont wanna get this locked you know. :wink:

  by Matt K Dettman
 
So I guess they're trading B39-8s for B23-7s simply b/c they need good, reliable switching power switching power and less horsepower (slipperiness) right?