• 2026 Soccer World Cup coming to NJ & NY, with many games (including the final) in MetLife Stadium

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

  by lensovet
 
This is from Wikipedia. Not sure what their source is:
The locomotive is capable of performing a mode change while on the move; however, NJ Transit has reprogrammed their locomotives to only allow a mode change during a station stop. This is most likely to prevent the loss of power during the transition to diesel mode with a limited amount of wire left.
  by MACTRAXX
 
west point wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:58 pm Question: What is the platform length at the meadowlands?
The MNRR Hell Gate service will not start in time for these games/
With that in mind is it possible for Amtrak to provide thru service from say Bridgeport - Meadowlands? If some Airo train sets are operational then that might be ideal equipment to operate the service. If not maybe Amtrak could operate the combined ACS-64 / P-42 combination that is often used at late night for CAT maintenance.
WP: I brought up the "Train to the Game" service as example that through trains CAN be an option from
the New Haven Line via the Hell Gate Bridge through Penn Station to Trenton using NJT equipment...

A MNCR/NJT schedule WILL have to be workable for ALL of the World Cup 2026 events at the Meadowlands...
In fact I was NOT even thinking of the timing to and from NFL games when I thought of this idea...

I will be surprised if ANY of the NEC Airo trains is actually built, tested and in revenue Amtrak service by Summer
2026 remembering that Siemens has a years-long backlog on rail car orders...Amtrak should add trains that
stop at Secaucus Junction (as I point out previously to JS the added tracks and platforms ARE available)
during the World Cup 2026 Tournament connecting to the aforementioned Meadowlands shuttles...MACTRAXX
  by andegold
 
Understood that change of modes in the middle of Harold/anywhere other than a platform would be bad. It's unfortunate that there is no catenary to Woodside.

The purpose of running to Jamaica is not for the nonexistent passenger from JFK but as a proof of concept for through running and to eliminate change of trains for fans at both Jamaica and PSNY. One change is better than two, especially since there will be an additional mandatory change at Secaucus.

I'm not suggesting this at all but trains from Jamaica could be scheduled to skip PSNY if the crowds are big enough.

Finally, back to my question of 12 car trains: Is stadium service currently run with 10 car trains? If so then I think the platform can probably hold 11 with one door off the platform. I won't swear to it but I believe every Meadowlands train I've taken has had the motor on the west end as is typical for Hoboken diesel sets. That means the motor is at the bumper at the stadium due to the round about routing of the line. If they arrange these trains with the motor on the east end instead they could maybe fit 11 cars?
  by pumpers
 
Looking at this link https://www.nj.com/news/2021/08/amid-qu ... adium.html
and more posted in this thread, it seems the NJT plan to reach 22,000) people per hour from Secaucus to MetLife stadium definitely involves buses.
Then there is this article quoting Kevin COrbett saying that 10,000 per hour is the max possible by train (without spelling out if the limit was platforms, track capacity, equipment, etc...), and the plan is to have the new busway from Secaucus to the stadium (using part of the old Erie ROW) to be up and running (which involves new road and ramp construction) by early 2026 for another 12,000/hr. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/fifa-w ... r-BB1hT3Is
JS
  by MACTRAXX
 
JS - The construction of a busway between the Secaucus Junction station area and the Meadowlands complex
means that there will be most likely no changes to the rail infrastructure - such as electrification - of the shuttle
service. The noted platform capacity at MetLife Stadium Station of 10 cars will be the limit for train service.
It makes NO sense running 11 or 12 car trains with the inconvenience of having to walk up or back to exit...

The use of two diesel locomotives at either end of shuttle trains during the busiest service periods should
be the standard practice offering needed redundancy and allowing trains to turn at the Meadowlands and
Hoboken Terminal faster without the worries of having an underpowered train running at lower speed...

AG - I would not define a stop in Harold Interlocking a bad situation for ALP45DP motors to change modes.
Because of the strategic area that this train stop would have to be made in the 1 1/2 mile segment of track
between the end of catenary and the East River Tunnels the potential for problems can not be overlooked.

Extending the catenary wire to the LIRR Woodside Station - a track segment of less than two miles - would
be costly and be only practical for ALP45-hauled trains to change modes there - because turning trains
(especially on the two Main Line tracks serving Platforms A and B) would potentially tie up rail traffic...

On the other hand extending third rail from the North/Hudson River Tunnels to Secaucus Junction Station
Again an extension of about two miles - would have its own benefits by allowing the LIRR to use MU cars as
a better service option to the DM30/C3 trains more frequently and allow faster turnaround times - BUT...

Third rail would require the construction of at least TWO new substations - one in the vicinity of the
tunnel entrances and the other at or near Secaucus Junction Station to provide the needed power....
Trains draw the highest current/amperage starting up from a station - and in this instance westbound
750 VDC trains would draw electricity at a higher rate going upgrade under Bergen Hill specifically...

There is a historical predecence for third rail westward into New Jersey from Penn Station:
- the original PRR electrification in 1910 to the Manhattan Transfer Station (1910-1937) which was near
Hudson Tower (a surviving 1910 PRR remnant-Mile 7.3 from Jersey City and Mile 8.6 from Penn Station)
consisting of two island high-level platforms without outside road or pedestrian access used for transfers
between trains and locomotive changes...See:
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Transfer_station

In closing Meadowlands rail service is going to have to be provided with the present infrastructure we now
have - the elusive "One Seat Ride" will most likely be available only between Hoboken and MetLife Stadium...
Transfers between trains are an unavoidable necessity for most riders...
MACTRAXX
  by pumpers
 
MACTRAXX wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:13 am JS - The construction of a busway between the Secaucus Junction station area and the Meadowlands complex
means that there will be most likely no changes to the rail infrastructure - such as electrification - of the shuttle
service.
Yeah, I guess that was the main point I was trying to make.

And if there are enough crews and equipment, as mentioned earlier by Lensovet, Hoboken is interesting. Hoboken to Secaucus (regular service), change for the shuttle (bus or train). Or could dedicated trains run Hoboken-Secaucus-Stadium and reverse. Although looking at the NJT ex-Erie Main Line schedule, it is 12 minutes from Secaucus to Hoboken. So accounting for time in Hoboken to unload, load, and reverse ends, it's unlikely one consist could make more than one round trip in one hour.

And regarding 12,000 people (in one hour) by bus, --with 100 people on a bus, that is one bus leaving every 30 seconds.
  by lensovet
 
andegold wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:47 pm Finally, back to my question of 12 car trains: Is stadium service currently run with 10 car trains? If so then I think the platform can probably hold 11 with one door off the platform. I won't swear to it but I believe every Meadowlands train I've taken has had the motor on the west end as is typical for Hoboken diesel sets. That means the motor is at the bumper at the stadium due to the round about routing of the line. If they arrange these trains with the motor on the east end instead they could maybe fit 11 cars?
The limiting factor isn’t the Meadowlands platform; it’s the one at Secaucus. That platform can only handle 10 cars, full stop.
  by lensovet
 
pumpers wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:00 pm
MACTRAXX wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:13 am JS - The construction of a busway between the Secaucus Junction station area and the Meadowlands complex
means that there will be most likely no changes to the rail infrastructure - such as electrification - of the shuttle
service.
And if there are enough crews and equipment, as mentioned earlier by Lensovet, Hoboken is interesting. Hoboken to Secaucus (regular service), change for the shuttle (bus or train). Or could dedicated trains run Hoboken-Secaucus-Stadium and reverse. Although looking at the NJT ex-Erie Main Line schedule, it is 12 minutes from Secaucus to Hoboken. So accounting for time in Hoboken to unload, load, and reverse ends, it's unlikely one consist could make more than one round trip in one hour.
Current service requires a transfer at Secaucus from Hoboken. Though I remember a previous event (perhaps the Rihanna concert?) where they had a combination of through running and shuttles.
  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone: How did NJT make out with service to the President's Day weekend NHL Stadium Series games?

The total MetLife Stadium attendance for the two games was 150,018 - or about 75,000 for each game.

Saturday February 17: New Jersey Devils 6, Philadelphia Flyers 3
Sunday February 18: New York Rangers 6, New York Islanders 5

This could be an indication of attendance for the upcoming 2026 World Cup similar to NFL games...
Something for NJT and all interested to take note of...MACTRAXX
  by andegold
 
I went to the Rangers/Islanders game on Sunday. Normally I would have taken the train but because of the weather and the need to carry layers that would be excessive while on the train, four of us drove and four took the train. Attendance was 79,000. (Saturday had lower attendance due to sections being blocked out for the Jonas Brothers concert.) Driving and parking was a breeze - one of the easiest events I've ever been to there. NJT had cancellations in NY. My kids made it to the stadium with plenty of time to spare and I heard no complaints about their trip home either. I'll try and remember later to ask more pointed questions about crowd control, etc. The weather worked in NJT's favor by delaying the game at least a half hour.