1944 Southwestern Limited through Ashtabula times?

Do any of you have the schedule of the Eastbound Southwestern Limited through Ashtabula in early 1944? What stops did it make East of Cleveland and West of Buffalo?

Several 1944 NYC timetables are available on the Canada Southern website.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/home.htm

I found this question kind of interesting. As you can see below -- where I posted a scan of part of the Cleveland-Buffalo passenger schedule in February 1944 -- the Southwestern Limited made only one stop between Cleveland Union Terminal and Central Terminal at Buffalo. That was at East Cleveland undoubtedly to change power from an electric motor to a steam locomotive.

According to an ETT, No. 12 the Southwestern Limited, passed through Ashtabula at 10 33 PM, 64 minutes out of East Cleveland.

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East Cleveland was the joint passenger station (with the NKP) located at Superior and Euclid Aves. It was opened as part of the Cleveland Union Terminal project and replaced the old NKP East Cleveland station at Euclid Ave. / E. 120th St. and the NYC east side station at E. 105th St / Dupont Ave on the Lakefront Line (LS&MS).

The CUT Electric Zone east limit was at Collinwood / E. 152nd St.

With the kind permission of the Central Electric Railfan Association's Walt Keevil I am posting a couple of track maps below showing the location of various points with the Cleveland electric zone.



You can see on the East Side the NKP changed power just east of the East Cleveland station (hidden behind the label) while NYC changed power near E. 152nd Street within the Collinwood yard. Below is a enlarged map view at the Collinwood power change area.



shlustig was correct about East Cleveland. In Herb Harwood's book Invisible Giants he explains that East Cleveland was an elevated passenger station opened in 1930 as part of the Cleveland Union Terminal project. Below is a passage from the book (used with Mr. Harwood's permission).



The East Cleveland station survived into the diesel era. Looking at system timetables, all east/west Central passenger trains operating via CUT stopped at East Cleveland until 1961 when some trains began skipping the stop. By April 1963 the station was no longer in service. However Cleveland RTA Red Line trains continued to stop there and do so up to the present. RTA calls the station Superior.

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Actually the power change at the East end of NKP/CUT operations took place at or between the East 37th Street "puzzle" and the West end of E 55th st yard. CUT wires ended just East of the west end yard office. Typically A westbound would pull under the wires, cut off and be run up one of the Broadway Yard leads, making roiom for the electric to grab the train. Eastbounds would come out of CUT, and either pull the train out on the main & back it towards the coach yards, or cut off in the puzzle, with the electric waiting for the NKP engine to tie on and and then depart with its train via one of the yard leads, crossing over onto the main near the west end of 55th st. yard office. There was no provision to make an electrric/steam change at East Cleveland station between the CUT & NKP.

In looking at several employee timetables for the area, one oddity I found was, there were no times shown for the engine change at Collinwood (see below). First is an excerpt from a Cleveland Division timetable from 1943. I don't have the exact operating limits but the Cleveland Division was basically the terminal division in the Cleveland area.

The power change took place near QD tower. BR tower was at the east end of Collinwood. You can see in the schedule a train leaves Cleveland Union Terminal at 12:40 AM. It passes BR 12.96 miles east exactly thirty minutes later. However the running time for the first seven miles to East Cleveland is nine minutes. The 8.97 miles between East Cleveland and BR are covered in twenty-one minutes. Obviously there was plenty of time in there to change power. But there is no time shown for it nor a location. Below the Cleveland Division listing is one from an Erie Division ETT from around the same time. The Erie Division was the mainline between Collinwood and Buffalo. The first times shown in the Erie Division schedule that are applicable to an Erie Division crew (the times shown in italics are for "information only') is the time passing BR tower.





So how was the Erie Division crew supposed to know when their train was going to be arriving at the power change point? How would the Cleveland Division crew know what time they were supposed to arrive there? How did the Erie Division crew know what time they were to depart eastbound with their train? How long was the power change supposed to take? Somewhere the times were undoubtedly set forth, I'm sure. But it wasn't set forth in the ETTs and that seems somewhat odd.

Below I'm posting a photo which shows the area around QD Tower at Collinwood Yard. According to the photo caption this was the area where it was planned that the engine change would take place. The photo was taken in mid-1930 when the facilities -- part of the Cleveland Union Terminal electrification project -- were under construction. The view is said to be looking east from about E. 140th Street. The catenary towers are installed but it looks like the catenary has not yet been put in place.

An engine crew, no matter if assigned or from a pool, would be called to work some amount of time prior to leaving the roundhouse. If a train were late, the call for the run would be set back. If on time, the crew would have time to inspect locomotive and get permission to and then move to the power changing point. One would expect that the dispatchers would want that power waiting for the arrival of the train they were to handle. At least 15 minutes prior to arrival would keep most dispatchers in their chairs.

Tommy:

The photo was taken from the catenary tower located opposite QD Tower at E. 140th St.

The CUT trackage is the newly ballasted tracks on the right. The engine service area and P1A are off to the right.

The coaling tower that was on the north side west of E. 152nd St. has not yet been built.

Engine changes were done between E. 140th St. and E. 152nd St. in both directions, all of which was part of QD's plant.

Tommy:

The photo was taken from the catenary tower located opposite QD Tower at E. 140th St.

The CUT trackage is the newly ballasted tracks on the right. The engine service area and P1A are off to the right.

The coaling tower that was on the north side west of E. 152nd St. has not yet been built.

Engine changes were done between E. 140th St. and E. 152nd St. in both directions, all of which was part of QD's plant.

Speaking of New York Central to Cleveland, here's a copy of an ad from 1951:



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Tommy, I have to say you have some of the neatest stuff!

Charlie

Thanks Charlie.

And I must say, even now, if I was going to Cleveland The Chicagoan sounds pretty tempting. Your berth ready for occupancy at 10 o'clock? Breakfast in the diner along the Lake Shore after a restful sleep? Arrival in downtown Cleveland at 10:12 AM?

Pretty nice way to get to Cleveland!