• #14 Orange Line Cars 1400-1551 (From Red/Orange Procurement discussion)

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

  by R36 Combine Coach
RandallW wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:58 pm Massachusetts stipulated that the cars be "Made in MA", not "Made in USA", which meant that Massachusetts forewent any federal monies for these cars. MA tried to build a MA-based rail manufacturing capability, and this was one of the possible results.
Same with the MTA and "Made in NY". But the "made in NY" relationship with manufacturers has been going on
for years (Kawasaki in Yonkers 1987, BBD Plattsburgh 1995, MK/Amerail in Hornell, now Alstom). In fact NY State
touts rail vehicle production as a key industry, thanks to the MTA, with made in NY cars also builf for other states
and cities.
  by BandA
What a failure. MA gave China CRRC a camel's nose entry into the US market. And nobody is going to sign a contract with CRRC-MA, so that plant will go away. If MA had signed with buy-USA entity they would have gotten federal subsidies and would already have their cars in hand, probably with greater future reliability.
  by Diverging Route
It seems to me the right thing to do at this time is for MassDOT to put out a procurement solicitation for another, established car builder to take over the entire contract -- building, manufacturing, warranty, etc. -- essentially buying out CRRC. That investment today in time and money will pay off in the future, as there's so much doubt about CRRC completing the contact and fulfilling its obligations for the long term.
  by TurningOfTheWheel
The contract was bad the day it was signed, but the fact remains that any rebids or additional procurement would have an unacceptable lead time given the state of the existing fleet. I said it in the corresponding Red Line discussion, but going through another bid process would add another five years to this debacle, which simply can't happen.
  by R36 Combine Coach
Here's a roundup of other possible manufacturers:

BBD/Alstom (Plattsburgh): finishing up the BART order. The Alstom main shop in Hornell is tied up with the
Acela II/Avelia.

Kawasaki: Struggling with the NYCT R211, behind schedule on base order, option order due for 2025-2027.

CAF (Elmira Heights): tied up with various projects.

Siemens: Sacramento is at full capacity, but could be done at the existing CRRC assembly plant in Springfield.

Rotem and Nippon Sharyo: no more domestic plants, cars would be imported.

Hitachi/Breda: No permanent plants (pop-up assembly facilities), but the Type 8 debacle might still ring a bell.
  by RandallW
Hitachi is building a permanent factory in MD.
“We’re establishing for the first time a permanent base in the U.S.A. so I’m very pleased we’ve chosen Maryland as the site to do that. We’ve got rolling stock plants all over the world—Italy, U.K., Japan—and this one will be the combination of all of our experience from that.”
Siemens is building a second plant in North Carolina.
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