1001: New F40PH- "4C" prototype

Did I read correctly, 3000 HP + HEP. Vs 4600HP for the HSP-46? A like-new rebuild would be highly reliable and therefore desirable. I assume that 3000HP is not enough to comfortably pull a 6-8 car double decker train, but could be used for shorter trains. Fully updated engine controls, not having to operate Tier-IV emissions, would that make it more or less fuel efficient than the HSP-46?

What are -4 improvements over -2 and -3?

I’m still confused, are they rebuilding off of the same screamer shells that were supposed to be scrapped or are they building entirely new units to took like they were from the screamers? That’s not what I’m getting yet.

Commuterrail1050 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 8:55 am are they rebuilding off of the same screamer shells that were supposed to be scrapped or are they building entirely new units

The fleet of these lease units isn't part of anything that was ever owned by MBTA. They're other F40PHs that are being rebuilt, not unlike MBTA is doing with their F40PH-2Cs, now called F40PH-3C. An EMD 645 cannot legally be used in a new-build locomotive in the US without it having extensive emissions equipment added, and it still may not be possible for a 645 to ever be Tier 4 compliant. That's just one of the reasons EMD stopped putting 645s into new locomotives decades ago.

BandA wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 4:11 pm Did I read correctly, 3000 HP + HEP. Vs 4600HP for the HSP-46? A like-new rebuild would be highly reliable and therefore desirable. I assume that 3000HP is not enough to comfortably pull a 6-8 car double decker train, but could be used for shorter trains. Fully updated engine controls, not having to operate Tier-IV emissions, would that make it more or less fuel efficient than the HSP-46?

The modern GEVO engine is much more efficient, and cleaner than any EMD 2-stroke 645 or even 710. Again, these rebuilds that are being hyped as a "-4" are still old F40s at their core and are extremely unlikely to do anything different than the MBTA's existing F40PH-3C fleet, except that the HEP powerplant will be somewhat cleaner and perhaps quieter. I would not think that MBTA has much use for more F40s at this point.

1001 was spotted on a Middleboro Extra today by a friend of mine at Plain Street, Braintree MA

chrisf wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 9:10 am I would not think that MBTA has much use for more F40s at this point.

Could the Caltrain surplus F40s be used for -4s?

BandA wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 4:11 pm ... I assume that 3000HP is not enough to comfortably pull a 6-8 car double decker train, but could be used for shorter trains...

BN and Metra used single 2400hp E9s for such trains until F40s took over. Many Youtube videos of such on their "Racetrack".

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 10:08 pm Could the Caltrain surplus F40s be used for -4s?

My understanding is those F40s cannot run again as locomotives after Caltrain dispoes of them due to whatever agreements were made when funding Caltrain electrification.

The prime movers are likely being torched to prevent future use and yes they likely made an agreement during the electrification. At the same time, I think the state classified a locomotive, as just the prime mover in previous agreements, so it could possibly be contested in court. But that is a lot of effort and money to go through, when there are surplus F40PH's out there.

If California doesn't want those locomotives used they should just sell them out of state to a place like Massachusetts that doesn't have the air pollution problems that CA has. Rather than cutting off their nose to spite their face. Reminds me of Cash for Clunkers...at least those were allowed to be fully parted out iirc.

It's exactly like Cash for Clunkers in that the program for cars disabled the engine such that it could not be reused in another car. The Caltrain deal on their F40s required that the prime mover be disabled in a similar fashion to receive grants. The state of California isn't going to build a loophole into their requirements to get cleaner locomotives in use. California doesn't have air pollution problems now because they worked to fix them.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 10:08 pm Could the Caltrain surplus F40s be used for -4s?

These so-called -4 engines are still a dirty old Tier 0+ EMD 645. The Caltrain F40s cannot be used as locomotives ever again per the funding agreements made around their replacements.

What they should've done was installed a more modern engine in the F40 shell. Maybe something like the HSP

BandA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 10:13 am If California doesn't want those locomotives used they should just sell them out of state to a place like Massachusetts that doesn't have the air pollution problems that CA has. Rather than cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Is Mass a CARB state? I do know new automobiles sold in MA are subject to CARB standards and not the Federal EPA.